Junior Engineer Woes 8

[anominal]

I have two years of job experience with the same employer, one in the field and one in the design office. This is my first full-time job after college.

In the design office I've primarily been a draftsman. The majority of my time has been spent cleaning up CAD files created by ill-trained, less computer savvy, senior level engineers. I've gotten very good at it...

It's grunt work. I don't want to specialize in correcting other peoples CAD mistakes, yet there seems to be no end in sight. I've put up with it for a year. Before I start seeking other employment opportunities I'd like to know if anyone else has been in the same boat.

Perhaps I'm just another plebe from generation whine, living in the age of entitlement.

 

[Twoballcane]

I'm not sure with others, but the first five years will be grunt work. Not until you get some design (and even some years) under your belt that the manager will give you any kind of real engineering work. However, take this time as a learning experience on how the company works. Work and projects are cyclical. You have to keep a look out of when is the next big job and try to pursue your manager to get you into that project. Also, at your reviews, you have to tell your boss you want more responsibilities. If you don't ask/tell them, they won’t know what you want to do.

Oh and your situation is about the same in any generation.


Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

 

[KENAT]

A year or so of this isn't too unreasonable. However, I'd definitely start asking about opportunities for advancement.

That doesn't mean you'll be leading the design of the next big thing. However, maybe you'll get to directly assist a more senior engineer working alongside them rather than just picking it up when they're 'done'. Or it might mean being given a small aspect of the project to be your 'baby'.

Are you doing detail drafting or just modeling? If drafting then my guess is that after 1 year you still have a lot to learn - if you choose to.

Only you know all the details of the situation, but nicely asking for some more challenging work doesn't sound unreasonable from what you say.

If they say 'no you're a CAD grunt no more' then perhaps actively start pursuing other avenues.

(By the way, the fact you even ask about the 'whine' suggests either you don't need to worry, or you're just somewhat smooth so should look to advance in sales or management.)

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[TheTick]

I don't want to specialize in correcting other peoples CAD mistakes, yet there seems to be no end in sight

Darn right there's no end in sight. Plenty of good money to be made doing it, too. It's not engineering, but it has the makings of a business.

 

[anominal]

Five years seems daunting. This post was motivated by only four additional months of CAD damage-control work being assigned to me.

KENAT, it's drafting; state DOT contract plans, specifically highway bridge sets. There is MUCH more to learn.

Aside from being insanely bored (repositioning call-out leaders, changing line weights and styles, and adjusting base mapping clip-masks for nine hours straight is excruciating) I'm afraid of being pigeonholed; I'll be up for my PE in but two years and have had barely two months of solid engineering experience.

 

[IRstuff]

Have you talked to your supervisor? Ask him what plans he has for your engineering growth and training. If you don't say anything about it, why would they change anything?

TTFN

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[KENAT]

As you are keen on getting your PE you need to speak up sooner than later, since some states don't count time spent drafting toward the experience requirement - you need to look this up for your own state.

Do remember it's a tough job market right now so finding a job where you actually get to do more hardcore engineering may not be easy. Also they may be less inclined to accommodate your wishes than when the job market is better. At least the experience you are getting is fairly relevant.

Do a little research on if time spent drafting counts toward PE in your state before you talk to your supervisor.

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[crossframe]

Beware the trap many young engineers fall into... Entry-level engineers often learn CAD software in college, and become immediately valuable in a design firm because they are fast at CAD, not too expensive, and eager to learn and please. I worked with one guy for over a year and a half before I learned he was an engineer, not a CAD tech. As he was trying to climb out of his pigeon-hole, there were many instances of "Can you just help out with..." I finally told him he may have to consider moving to another company to be thought of as an engineer.

That being said, The Tick is absolutely right. Not everyone ends up where they thought they would. Many are much better off for it.

Having good CAD skills is extremely valuable for a structural engineer, so don't begrudge this learning experience. Having good engineering skills, however, is even more important. You may even think that the engineering tasks are grunt work. Some of them are, but it's the best way to learn.

Expect some CAD assignments, but only you will know when "engineering opportunities" are passing you by. Employers may say a lot of things to try to kepp you content, but actions are what will speak the loudest.

 

[hokie66]

Keep in mind that those drawings you are correcting are the product of your work, and the quality of the drawings your firm produces defines its own quality.

Count yourself lucky that you can correct drawings by typing. Doing it by erasing vellum or scratching ink off linen was no fun, especially when you made a hole in the drawing.

 

[KENAT]

Isn't that what the scalpel & tape was for?

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[anominal]

If this is just paying my dues then so be it. I have a very good relationship with my supervisor and I want it to continue that way.

I think I should talk to him and convey that I'm concerned I might be falling into said trap.

 

[KENAT]

Yes talk to him, but definitely look at your Stages PE rules and if Drafting time counts as experience - this would be good 'ammunition', but that doesn't necessarily mean give him both barrels!

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[MikeHalloran]

Also, pay attention to _what_ you're (re)drawing, and come to understand why it's done the way it is.

Don't start offering to redesign everything until you learn the difference between a bad design and a good compromise.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[berkshire]

anominal (Structural)

Look at it this way. At least you are working with a cad file.
You could be working with a sketch drawn on the back of a cigarette packet. Laying this down on Vellum or Mylar, then dealing with, " That was not quite what I meant, this goes over here."
B.E.

 

[SpecialEddie]

I think what you are doing is very valuable experience. You are just too inexperienced to realize it. What you are doing is very helpful to help you learn how to organize a set of drawings. Instead of just picking up mark-ups, you need to also keep your eyes open to how the drawings are actually put together. Where are the general notes, where are the typical details, where are the plans, where are the sections where are the elevations? How do you lay out the different bridge elements with respect to the different baselines, etc? When do you show the topographic contour lines on the foundation and layout plans, and when don't you? It is very important to know how to put together a set plans that look good and flow well. Line weights, call-outs, font-types, etc. are very important in making the final set of plans represent the final design. It is a very valuable asset to be able to model bridges in 3-D, do multi-modal analysis on the computer, be able to crank out 10 inches worth of calculation pages, etc. But as design consultants, nobody cares about our calculations. We get paid for producing a set of drawings that a contractor can take and build a bridge without asking for any clarifications or submitting any RFI's. That will never happen, of course. But it is critical that our drawings be as perfect as we can make them. In a design consultant's office, the most brilliant engineering mind is useless if the person with that mind cannot compile a set of drawings.

While it is true what others have said about young engineers with CAD skills getting pigeon-holed into drafting work, I think this is seldom the case in most decent firms. If yours is a "decent" firm, you will soon transition into performing some real engineering work when your superiors feel you are ready for it. When I first started out, all I did was use a red pen to mark RFI's on record set drawings for a year. I hated it and often thought of quitting. I hung in there and was doing "real" engineering work shortly. I ended spending almost ten years with that firm and it was the best experience I ever had.

Hang in there. If you've been doing this for a year as you say, then you should soon be moving on to other tasks. If not within a few months, then it may be time to move on to another firm. If that ends up being the case, this has still been very valuable experience and you should make the most of it while you can.

Good luck.

 

[zdas04]

Don't let the job define your limits. Watch for other things going on around you and make the time to understand other people's projects. When I was starting out I paid a lot of attention at staff meetings and discussions over lunch and in the hall. Every so often I would be able to say to the guys on Project A that there was a development on Project W that might have a bearing on what they're doing. Doesn't happen often, but just a couple of times and you'll find yourself on Project A instead of fixing drawings. It only takes initiative to pay attention to the stuff around you.

The only people I've seen permanently pigeonholed have been people who really deserved it. They saw the menial task as their "job" and applied their imagination and enthusiasm to their after hours hobby instead of to their job. People who take a crap job as an opportunity to learn about the company's activities and try to find small and subtle ways to make them better don't get stuck in a dead-end job.

In other words, don't "tell" your boss you are ready for more responsibility, "show" him that you are taking the initiative to assume more. Everybody hates the "I hired on to be an Engineer not a toady" discussion and I can't recall a single time that it did any good. Most people like the "I wonder if the proposed DOT reg will impact the way you have to do XYZ" as long as it is with someone on the project and not a manager over the Project Manager.

David

 

[graybeach]

Specialeddie said what I was going to say. It used to be that most structural engineers started out "on the boards". That's how they learned how to creat a coherent set of plans. One of my first assignments as an engineer was to draft up a whole set of plans for a two span highway bridge. It was plastic lead pencil on mylar in those days so I got a big lump on my right middle finger and got covered in eraser shavings each day. But what excellent experience this was. Later, I rose to leadership positions because I knew how to establish the vision for the finished product. Today I work for an owner and review many sets of plans, and most have much room for improvement. I wish more junior engineers were doing what you are doing.

 

[GregLocock]

Before this turns into the Monty Pythons sketch... body panel drawings used to be drawn on aluminium sheet with a scalpel and were corrected with a ball peen hammer. So forget the sooking.

There is nothing wrong with spending a year learning how the drawing office works. There is a lost opportunity if all you have learned is how to correct drawings.





Cheers

Greg Locock


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[SNORGY]

In my place of employment, there is no need for a position such as described by the OP, since neither our CAD department nor our engineers make any drawing errors.

We prefer to call them "revisions".

Regards,

SNORGY.

 

[shadow401]

It is common to be spending most of your day drafting for your first few years. Some people think it's good experience but I think you should try to mimize your drafting time as much as possible (I know it's easier said than done). After 7 years of drafting, I design my projects the way a drafter sees a project rather than an engineer. I set my proposed property lines and buildings based on where I can better fit my text labels. I only know how to design by drafting my own work. I wouldn't even know how to lay out a site on paper and hand it off to someone. Remember that there's nothing more permanent than temporary