JUST CURIOUS 15

[nifez]

Just a quick question about job prospects in ur respective areas.
As a newly graduated engineer from N.Ireland, i had every intention of moving to Canada (Got some family there, always here wonderful things about it), however after reading through some of these posts it seems Canada is NOT the place to be for engineers, in terms of having a succesful career.
As i am still young i feel decisions like this will greatly influence my future(if any) in engineering.
Job prospects for graduating engineers in N.Ireland are at best poor.(what with the guy who fixes the television being an electrical engineer!!)
These were my reasons for wanting to move in the first place, and im still keen to leave this country.
So i was just wandering wot working conditions, salaries, job prospects etc, for engineers are like where ur from?

 

[makeup]

Well UK based engineers, opportunities are advertised a fair bit, money £ 33Kish for lots of experience, getting the job is another thing. Unless your exceptional then you may just join a pond

 

[davefitz]

To see what areas are currently hot, checkout the engineering employment ads at sites such as <

http://www.thinkjobs.com>.

Anotehr option is to get involved in areas that are guaranteed to heat up in the next 2-5 yrs. Such as LNG related industries( liquifaction terminals, regasification terminals, shipping, etc), deep ocean oil /gas development,coal gasification.

 

[corus]

A friend of mine went to Canada to find work but couldn't find a job unless he had a work permit and he couldn't have a work permit unless he had a job. He left.
He eventually found work in the south of France. Being in the EU you'll find working in europe no problem, and most times the language isn't a problem if it's a large international company.

corus

 

[epoisses]

I can confirm southern France is great, but if you prefer Canada you shouldn't be discouraged by a few negative posts. You can google up negative and positive opinions about any country. Just go for it!

 

[samv]

what part of Canada are you thinking of? What kind of job are you looking for, and what kind of salary would you find acceptable (in CDN$)?

I live in Eastern Canada, and have a reasonably good mech. eng. job - but my husband who is also a mech. eng is currently unemployed.

There are jobs, but depending how much $ you are willing to work for and how flexible you are on what part of our huge country you want to live in and what industry type you are targeting, you will find it more or less difficult to find a job.

However, I can't say that I know how easy of difficult it is for a foreigner to get a work permit.

Good Luck!

 

[DrillerNic]

nifez- what type of mechanical engineering work do you want to do? Right now is an ideal time to get work in the oil industry in Aberdeen- people are drilling like mad... For example, a company called Zertech, who make innovative expandible metal packers are advertising for a graduate mechanical engineer in the P&J today:

(

http://jobs.thisisnorthscotland.co.uk/finn/job/object?id=3575819&sid=012903311098013&pos=5&rub=18)

And in the paper copy of today's P&J, Atwood want a mechanical engineer for a couple of years in Perth, Australia for a drill rig upgrade (but they want drilling experience).

Salaries in the oil business are excellent, you can get the opportunity to travel, and if you're an offshore hand, you only work 6 months a year....

 

[QCE]

If you have a work visa then it will be no problem to find an engineering job in Canada.

Every new grad I know has gotten a job with ease. You can expect to wait upto 6 monthes from the time you start applying to the time you start working.

If you want to work in oil (usually crap jobs for new grads) it will be no problem. Oil jobs are the easiest to get and they pay well but are not recommended unless you are keenly interested or are just in it for the money.

 

[QCE]

ohh yeah

new grad salary should be $40,000 - $55,000 Canadian.

The large range is due to the large country. Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, Montreal will pay more because they cost more.

 

[COKA]

It is not necessarily true that companies in bigger cities are paying more for engineers. A lot of grads that I know want to stay in the city and not go where there is only industrialized cities. Companies based in big cities know that, therefore they have a handfull of engineers that are looking for a job. I was offered as low as $38,000.

On the other hand, if you are willing to re-locate to northern Canada, or places that are far from the big cities, then it is a totally different story. There are not too many grads who want to go there, so the pay is much bigger, and there are plenty of jobs. Some companies are willing to arrange for you to get your work permit in a record time.

I had a couple of friends who worked in Thompson, Manitoba, and another friend in Iqualuit, Nunavut (I think that's how it's spelled). They had amazing pays, but nothing to do... Also, there are some companies in industrial cities, such as Sudbury or Hamilton, Ontario, that some three years hired up to half of my classmates.

I suggest that you do a search of big companies, and then find out how desperate they are to hire somebody, and then make your move. There is always a career section on their websites, with a possibility to fill out an online application form. I wouldn't suggest this method to apply for jobs, but if they are desperate, they'll contact you.

Try inco.com, stelco.com, dofasco.ca, alcan.com, norbord.com, to name just a few that were hiring in the past couple of years.

Good luck!



Coka

 

[nifez]

cheers guys, definately gonna give it a go now, sure at worst i just have to come home.

DRILLERNIC, most of my experience is with CAD, and in a drawing office, but im greedy, i'll go where the doe is.

COKA, live in NORTHERN Ireland, so could probably handle the north of Canada, im guessing ts pretty cold up there, but is there much to do up there?

my degree is in both electrical and mechanical engineering, but i specialised in mechanical, as im not overly keen on electrical. But would there be more electrical jobs in Canada than mechanical.

Sorry by the way, i know im just being lazy not looking up job websites, but you guys on here are first class when it comes to giving information and advice.

Cheers

 

[COKA]

It is very cold up there... what is there to do? Mostly skiing, snowmobiling, dog sledding, ice fishing, igloo making... I am talking about Iqualuit, actually, it was even northern then that... where my friend spent one work term. He had a great time because he loves snow and ALL winter sports. Besides, people with similar interest are working at the same place, so you have a great chance of making friends that you can do different activities with. My friends in Thompson joined a curling and a bowling league, if I remember correctly. Also, there are always local bars, and the best of all - amazing scenery!

Have fun!!

Coka

 

[QCE]

COKA is talking mostly about mining companies. I'm not to sure about that but it sounds like a good deal.

What I meant about the money is in general BC pays more than Sask and Ontario pays more than PEI. So don't pick based on wage. $40,000 in Saskatoon is worth more than $50,000 in Vancouver because of the cost of living.

When I was a new grad I worked in Scotland and England and found the wages to be much lower than in Canada.

Give it a go.

 

[HgTX]

Being from Northern Ireland is no preparation for the harsher parts of Canada. NI winter is more like Washington, D.C., winter than northern Canadian winter. Think northern Scandinavia. Even southern Canada will be significantly colder & snowier than NI, with temperatures well below freezing (or even below 0F) for weeks on end, and knee-deep snow a routine matter.

Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. I know a guy who moved from Israel to Calgary and loved it.

Hg

 

[moltenmetal]

Don't believe a couple of posts listing anecdotes about "I'm doing fine- I found a job no problem"- or "It sucks in Canada- absolutely don't go there because my friend couldn't find a job". You're an engineer and should know better than to base such an important decision upon such limited anecdotal information. Believe the overall, composite stats because they are objective (see

http://www.geocities.com/martinsmoltenmetal/index.htm)

and make sure your decision takes these into account.

In general terms, Canada has a massive over-supply (or under-utilization) of engineers of most kinds, measurable in a number of ways. That DOES NOT MEAN that there are no engineering jobs in Canada, just that there are lots of people looking for the jobs that are publicly advertised. The majority of engineering jobs in Canada are filled through connections and networking, and hence tend to be found by people who already have connections and a network in the local economy. And local grads also have an advantage since they represent a lower hire risk to employers.

Canada IS a great place to live, so it's a sought-after destination for immigration. Canada's immigration policy has divorced itself from the notion of matching supply and demand on a profession-by-profession basis as unrealistic, and has switched to giving points to people based on their level of education, skill in English or French, "adaptability" and other factors, in the hope that the economy will sort them all out after they come and find them jobs. Unfortunately, this has resulted in a 12-fold increase in engineering immigration in a decade where Canada's workforce and economic growth has been less than 20%. By my calcs we've generated a surplus of some 100,000 engineers in the past 12 years.

The over-supply is far more acute in the major population centres, particularly in Toronto and Vancouver. Toronto region alone receives 54% of Canada's "skilled worker" class of immigrants. If you choose to come, pick somewhere other than Toronto unless you've already found a job there before you arrive- that's a given.

You've got some things going for you that many recent immigrants don't: you're most likely a native speaker of English, which is a definite plus. You've got experience in a business environment and an education from an educational environment which employers will see as far closer to the Canadian norm than can be said for many of the most recent wave of immigrants (i.e. the ones from India, China and the former Soviet bloc countries). And you're a mech eng rather than a civil, which means that you have the option of working in either a licensed or non-licensed engineering role, so you won't have to wait until you get your license to find a job.

If you do choose to come, I recommend you apply for a license in the province you intend to settle in before you come. Ontario (and BC too I believe) permit this process to begin in your home country. See

http://www.peo.on.ca

for more details if you're coming to Ontario.

In the end, decide why you're moving. If it's purely for engineering opportunities, the 'States is probably a better bet for you than Canada. But if you want the best place to live, you'll have to sort that out against your own list of criteria and nobody can really help you.

If you do choose to come to Canada, you're absolutely welcome! But please don't whine and bad-mouth Canada if you ultimately have a tough time finding a job as an engineer. Canada's here to provide an opportunity for you to take advantage of, not to make one for you. You, unlike many in the current wave of engineering immigrants, at least will have made your decision with the supply-side information in hand and won't be able to claim that you were misled.

 

[COKA]

To QCE:

The companies I am tallking about are mostly metallurgy oriented, however, I was told that there are many of mechanical engineers working there. It doesn't hurt to give it a try, nifez has nothing to lose.

Coka

 

[QCE]

Moltenmetals campaign to inform immigrants of the terrible oversupply situation in Toronto area is well documented in this forum. However Canada is a big country and in BC we have started posting jobs in the states because we are having hard times finding engineers in Canada. I agree with Moltenmetal - I would not recommend going to Toronto to look for work.

Moltenmetal:

Many of the engineers I graduated with went to work in the states. It would be interesting to here something about that statistic.

 

[Bellatrix]

I would like to add that as a new grad, you would probably encounter some difficulties looking for a job. I graduated in 2004, and most of my friends do not have a real engineering job yet. I hear the situation is pretty much the same for the graduating classes of 2002 and 2003. There are engineering jobs in Ontario, but the competition is fierce. Many job openings are filled internally, and you would need to have good networks to even have a chance. It seems like nobody wants to hire new grads because we don't have any experience. We are pretty much affected by the famous catch-22: "No experience, no job...no job, no experience."

 

[makeup]

Bellatrix, as a mature student with 20 years experience in engineering manufacturing, I went and did a degree to improve my promotional prospects and open doors. It failed for me to, not the right experience. I think most companies prefer to head hunt the exact skills rather than train people. I also think HR cant see outside a box, they are given a remit and just are too inexperienced in the subject to know any better.

 

[moltenmetal]

QCE: post some of those jobs in Toronto first- you'll get a flood of applicants. Guess it depends where in BC you're talking about too, and what level of experience you're seeking- there is (proportionately) huge settlement of the skilled worker class of immigrants in the greater Vancouver area too.

The problem we have with engineering oversupply/ underutilization in Canada isn't localized to Toronto- it's just WORST in Toronto. It's a national problem- the stats I've given are national stats, not Toronto or Ontario stats. That doesn't mean there aren't local shortages of particular skill sets, particularly in outlying areas. As I've said before, the oversupply doesn't affect the number of jobs- it just affects the competition amongst applicants to get them, particularly the publicly advertised ones.

How is it possible for some businesses to experience "shortages" and have a hard time finding the right candidates, despite a general oversupply? This occurs when firms are looking for a very specific skill set and experience level for an existing project with neither the time nor the inclination to train people for the job. And they're looking for temporary, contract help to boot. Any firm which has a hard time attracting entry-level engineering staff at this time is just plain incompetent in dealing with human resources issues and should hire some professional help.

When you start treating engineers as a commodity service rather than as a profession, you get "shortages" which result from a lack of proper succession planning which no amount of immigration can fix. Our current situation in Canada is proof positive of that.