Justifying 3D CAD 3

[AeroNucDef]

Hi All

I've got a bit of a problem at work, wondering I could get some advice.

The company I work for have recently started using Solidworks, but they have been using Autocad for years. The production manager is getting annoyed that it takes longer to do manufacturing drawings in Solidworks than in Autocad. So the manager spoke to the MD to say that Solidworks is no good for our type of work (heavy engineering) and they should stick to Autocad. So next week I have been summoned to a meeting where I have to justify the continued use of Solidworks.

I've tried to explain to the manager the huge benefits of Solidworks, but he see's it as a waste of time. He's just want's his manufacturing drawings immediately.

The company doesn't do any R&D, or present models to clients.

I'm not sure what to do. If I don't come up with a good explanation, then I'm out of a job.

 

[KENAT]

If it makes you feel any better, various folk around here decided to migrate from one more or less adequate 3D CAD package to another 3D CAD package based on vague notions of it being more common among our vendors etc.

This is the second time I've found myself in a similar situation, and last time it didn't work out well.

Ah well, keeps things interesting.

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[AeroNucDef]

Mintjulep,

You have described it absolutely perfectly.


John,

I agree 100% with what you have wrote. That exactly how I see things.
Unfortunately my employers/co-workers wouldn't.

(P.S. Long Live NX)

 

[MikeHalloran]

I just got out of a situation where the transition from AutoCAD to Solidworks didn't go smoothly.

It didn't help that the entire senior engineering staff quit en masse. I got there some time after that, and got my SW training from a junior guy who was very fast, and would gladly demonstrate, once. Then he got the axe, and I learned from the SW tutorials.

... or tried to.

The SW tutorials are _seriously_ out of phase with the current product, and growing more so as the product evolves but the tutorials don't.

The 'help' function is also out of phase with the product and insufficiently cross-indexed.

SW _really_ needs to automate the process of producing tutorials, or otherwise get them up to speed with the product.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[Gurjjeet]

In addition to above.

I would suggest a good plan for transition. They have already bought the software, so why not use it on some part of the new project. Say use SWX for only 25% of project. Use only 2 of your best drafties. Set some realistic deadlines.

Show them the diffrence is because the Acad has all the data, templates, libraries in place. I bet you are spending alot of time on libraries & other one-time stuff.

And once you will have one project in SWX, you will be able to save time by re-using the data.

 

[ctopher]

I worked at a major aerospace company doing CAD support.
The AutoCAD people are a different breed. The ones that are die-hard fans of it, are not responsive to change. Most feel AutoCAD is 'it', no other can beat it.
After 20 years or so of using it, of course they 'could' be very good at it. I have worked with some that used it every day for 20 years and you would think they were beginners.
But, management assumes they are the best at CAD and and do their budgets and project dates based on the CAD user's 'knowing what they are doing' approach.
Educating employees and management about technology only makes companies grow, stuck in a rut will only eventually hurt them.

Chris
SolidWorks 10 SP4.0
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[MikeHalloran]

I learned AutoCAD (10) from a book, working at a system we rented in an architects' office.
There were a bunch of self-taught veterans there. ... all working on layer 0, because they didn't know there _was_ another layer.
I was ahead of them in two weeks.

Solidworks did not come so easy.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[KENAT]

Maybe one of your 'sell' items can be the ability to do things in the future you haven't done to date and that right now you are necessarily building the foundation for that to happen.

All due respect to John but I've found the various CAD companies and their (or their VARs) sales folk tend to exaggerate their capabilities while down playing the 'pain' of implementing them.

This seems especially true for small to medium enterprises that find it harder to justify big training budgets, or the time to set things up... Management seem to expect, even if just implicitly, that with little or no impact on schedule/throughput etc. you can get the new software up & running and see the promised benefits almost straight away.

I'm not knocking 3D CAD - it's all I've ever used in anger - but that doesn't mean I'm blind to some of the associated concerns.

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[ajack1]

Iwonafish I am not sure your reasoning really stands up.

“It's taking longer than AutoCAD because their are six AutoCAD drafters and one SW modeller (ME!). Most of the drafters have been doing this same job for 20+ years, so they can just do a drawing at lightening speeds. I've explained that once the rest of them have gotten experience with SW, things will move on very quickly. I've also told them that you can do 2D in SW, but their answer is "we can already do it in AutoCAD!".

Are you really suggesting that they learn to use 2D only in SW? When the 2D in AutoCAD is probably equal to or better than SW and they already know AutoCAD inside out.

“The parts that we make are not that complex, probably takes the same time in SW and AutoCAD. Most of the complex machinery is outsourced, and they also only do 2D “

So are you saying that after you overcome the learning curve you will be able to produce parts as quickly as you can now, with no added benefit, there can be huge benefits in working in 3D, but you have not named one? That hardly seems good justification to buy 7 seats of SW, the training and probably hardware updates, probably around £56K plus the time to overcome the learning curve.

“I agree with you. I think is going to take quite a bit of time (or a few retirements) to get the design time up to speed. The majority of the team are over 50 (I’m the youngest by far), having used AutoCAD from the earliest days, with no exposure to 3D.”

So by your own admission this is going to take a long time and mean losing staff that have worked for the company for years and probably know the products and procedures inside out.

I am not sure there is anything in there to make me think that whoever decided to go down this route made a big mistake and you are clutching at straws to try and justify it.

 

[looslib]

What is the difference between a car salesman and a computer salesman?

The car salesman knows when he is lying.


I took a course in AutoCAD administration a few years back and the instructor was taken back when I said I had never used AutoCAD. I had 18 years of UG/NX and 5 of Pro/E, but no AutoCAD.

Check with your SolidWorks VAR (or ptc.com) for information on justifying 3D CAD. I know both have white papers that do that. Siemens may, too.

"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli

 

[HDS]

Are the parts made on machines that can be programed using 3D models? If so there are huge benefits for the manufacturing floor.

If the machines are all 2D (or there aren't automated machines) then the benefits are more on the design side.

 

[moon161]

So what happened? Did Iwonafish win them over and keep his job, or join the grey realm of being an unemployment statistic (ahem, Professional in Transition)? Did they just convert him to an autocad station?

 

[AeroNucDef]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the replies. Sorry everyone hope that you will forgive my bad manners, I should have posted an update last week, but I've been really really busy.

moon161,

I'll never convert to autocad, ever.

I've had the meeting with the MD, and he's going to keep Solidworks (I keep my job!), but he's not going to commit to a definite transition time for the rest of the AutoCad designers. He said the main reason for keeping Solidworks is for checking for interference, making sure that the parts fit together correctly, and building a 3D general arrangement.

The Manufacturing Manager still isn't happy, he and most of the Autocad gang see 3D as pointless. They are driving me nuts.

IWF.

 

[beej67]

Did we ever get a description of what "Heavy Engineering" was? I may have missed it.

My little brother does Solid Works drafting for a company that makes industrial bread ovens and conveyor systems. He loves it. As the newer ME kids who know Solid Works get into corporate positions in companies they're blowing the doors off of the old ACAD guys. Or so the story goes. I'm Civil, I don't touch the thing.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[JohnRBaker]

My little brother does Solid Works drafting for a company that makes industrial bread ovens and conveyor systems.

If I may ask, what company might that be? The reason for my interest is that I spent 14 years working as a machine designer and project engineer for a major supplier of commercial bakery equipment, which included "industrial bread ovens and conveyor systems" among other devices found in any large commercial baking operation.

Here's a bit of history about the company I worked for (there's a quote attributed to me about 60% into the article).

http://www.bphs.net/GroupFacilities/S/Saginaw/index.htm

Note that we were the American division of a multinational corporation headquartered in Peterborough, England which has since been sliced and diced and barely exists any more except in bits and pieces spread around the world (however they still owe me a pension when I turn 65 and which I get a letter each year telling me that the money is actually there and waiting for me).

Anyway, I'm just interested in which company that this might be that your brother is working for.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Small world; I worked for W&P's US sales office briefly in 1974. I had no idea they had a relationship with any US company. ... and what a convoluted and enduring relationship.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[JohnRBaker]

When I was co-oping during school one summer in the 60's I was given the job of pulling old drawings and bringing them up to date for repair orders and occasionally we'd come across some old Werner & Pfleiderer drawings, which were like works of art. In fact, we had a couple of the 'ink on cloth' ones framed and hung in the lobby. Years later someone told me that despite what it might say in the 'history books' that there were still connections between BP and W&P which were not official nor even legal, but yet still there. BTW, did you ever attend any of the national bakery shows in Atlantic City? Now those were the days when trade shows were really something with the hospitality suites and the booze (and other pleasures) for the special customers.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[MikeHalloran]

I was a lowly contractor, translating German product drawings for local manufacture, and making machinery installation drawings for a new/larger showroom.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[beej67]

John -

Bro works for BakeTech. He's putting himself through college working an engineering tech position, but they have him doing full fledged engineering on some pretty large projects, because he's been with them for a while.

I'm led to believe there's not a lot of companies in that particular business space.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[JohnRBaker]

Is this the 'Bake Tech' that you're talking about:

http://www.baketech.com/products.htm

When you talk to your brother ask him to ask the people there if this company was somehow related to a company called 'Lanham Oven Company' or perhaps even 'Baker Perkins'. This equipment sure looks familiar.

I never worked for Lanham, but they were a competitor, however after I left Baker Perkins, they bought Lanham, but eventually they themselves got bought out and broken up into pieces. The tag line on Bake Tech's website about '18 years of Innovation' would put them right in the middle of that period.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[moon161]

IMHO, this industry has had a hard time topping the introduction of sliced bread in 1928:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sliced_bread