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Keep razor blades sharp 6
- Thread starter IFRs
- Start date
Skogsgurra
Electrical
Metalguy
The test razor. Is it the one that that you cycled wet/dry/wet etc? And you tell us that nothing happened to it? No corrosion? No rough edges? No build-ups?
I start to think that there should have been another test run parallel to the wdw cycling. One where a razor were just taken out of the protective packaging and left like that. So, if you don't mind; please run that test once again. I leave the light on for you.
The test razor. Is it the one that that you cycled wet/dry/wet etc? And you tell us that nothing happened to it? No corrosion? No rough edges? No build-ups?
I start to think that there should have been another test run parallel to the wdw cycling. One where a razor were just taken out of the protective packaging and left like that. So, if you don't mind; please run that test once again. I leave the light on for you.
- Thread starter
- #62
Metalguy - I think your test methodology is slightly flawed as it does not control for the abrasive effects of shaving and possible corrosive effects of the shaving cream, etc.
I think I will try shaving every other day with a standard blade and with a treated blade. That way, the conditions will be identical or nearly so.
Unfortulatly, I'm going on holiday next week (and I don't shave on holiday!!) so I can't start my testing until the week after. It will take a couple of weeks after that, maybe more to get one result.
Good results will only come after repeating this test several times.
Any volunteers?
Also, I seem to find variations between blades. Some brand new ones nick right away and I pitch them while other new ones shave really nicely and I keep them as long as possible. So, I will make sure that I get similar initial shaves from my two test razors before continuing with a test.
I think I will try shaving every other day with a standard blade and with a treated blade. That way, the conditions will be identical or nearly so.
Unfortulatly, I'm going on holiday next week (and I don't shave on holiday!!) so I can't start my testing until the week after. It will take a couple of weeks after that, maybe more to get one result.
Good results will only come after repeating this test several times.
Any volunteers?
Also, I seem to find variations between blades. Some brand new ones nick right away and I pitch them while other new ones shave really nicely and I keep them as long as possible. So, I will make sure that I get similar initial shaves from my two test razors before continuing with a test.
I've noticed razor-to-razor variability as well. I wonder if it has to do with the alignment of the blades in the head instead of the edge finish, which I would suppose would be easier to control. Does Gillette also have a monopoly on QC processes too?
JTribbianiCO
Electrical
I used to shave with a straight razor before switching to the Mach3 Turbo which I use now. All of the information I read on straight razor shaving said to keep Mineral Oil (i.e. "Intestinal Lubricant") along the edge of the blade inbetween shaves to prevent corrosion. Straight razor, high-carbon blades are very prone to corrosion, even over a period of just a few days.
Mineral Oil works great for both short and extended (3+ months) time periods and is easily removed with a light dabbing of isopropyl alcohol right before the shave.
You also might want to check out greatrazors.com, which sells cryogenically tempered packs of the most common blades sold today. I have personally found that these last about twice as long as a regular, untempered blade from Target. The only problem is, with the extended lifetime the lube strip tends to wear out after about a week (on a Mach3 turbo), and the blade is still useful for a reasonably good shave for another few days. This isn't a total loss, however, as the blades are the same price as in a store and the 7 days of shaves I do get before the lube strips jumps ship are far better anyway since the blade is sharper for longer.
By the way, I think eng-tips.com is the only place on the internet where you'll find a serious conversation about using a cathode charging technique to preserve the lifetime of a razor blade! Yup. This site is awesome.
Mineral Oil works great for both short and extended (3+ months) time periods and is easily removed with a light dabbing of isopropyl alcohol right before the shave.
You also might want to check out greatrazors.com, which sells cryogenically tempered packs of the most common blades sold today. I have personally found that these last about twice as long as a regular, untempered blade from Target. The only problem is, with the extended lifetime the lube strip tends to wear out after about a week (on a Mach3 turbo), and the blade is still useful for a reasonably good shave for another few days. This isn't a total loss, however, as the blades are the same price as in a store and the 7 days of shaves I do get before the lube strips jumps ship are far better anyway since the blade is sharper for longer.
By the way, I think eng-tips.com is the only place on the internet where you'll find a serious conversation about using a cathode charging technique to preserve the lifetime of a razor blade! Yup. This site is awesome.
Back in the early seventies, researchers at Harwell in England worked with Gillette to improve razor blade performance by ion implantation. The process worked extremely well, doubled or tripled blade life. Gillette then patented the application and sat on it because it would cut into their blade market. I worked with Gillette engineers on this in the states a few times, and each time the engineer wound up employed elsewhere when his management got wind of what he was up to.
Current Gillette blades are coated. They have a layer of platinum for corrosion protection and a layer of diamond-like-carbon (DLC) for friction reduction. They are not on the blades to increase blade life, only to improve performance in the near term.
Panasonic deposits TiN on the foils for their wet-dry electric razors. There is no reason this very hard coating can't be put on razor blades for extended life as well -- we put a related coating on scalpel blades, and ours are the sharpest and longest-lasting on the market by far.
Jim Treglio
Molecular Metallurgy, Inc.
Current Gillette blades are coated. They have a layer of platinum for corrosion protection and a layer of diamond-like-carbon (DLC) for friction reduction. They are not on the blades to increase blade life, only to improve performance in the near term.
Panasonic deposits TiN on the foils for their wet-dry electric razors. There is no reason this very hard coating can't be put on razor blades for extended life as well -- we put a related coating on scalpel blades, and ours are the sharpest and longest-lasting on the market by far.
Jim Treglio
Molecular Metallurgy, Inc.
EdStainless
Materials
The single edge injector blades that I use are CS, they do corrode if I am not careful. They come oiled with mineral oil.
The commercial blades that are used for chopping fibers used in reinforced plasitcs are made from 440C. They are shaped, heat treated, honed and then TiC ion implanted. They are slightly dulled durring the TiC process. In the long run it is very helpful. The harder surface resista abrasion better and they are less effected by the residual acid on the fibers.
I am still convinced that corrosion is a factor in the dulling of blades. Most soaps contain chorides, some as much as 4%. It may be the soap residue that is the source of the corrosion.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Corrosion never sleeps, but it can be managed.
The commercial blades that are used for chopping fibers used in reinforced plasitcs are made from 440C. They are shaped, heat treated, honed and then TiC ion implanted. They are slightly dulled durring the TiC process. In the long run it is very helpful. The harder surface resista abrasion better and they are less effected by the residual acid on the fibers.
I am still convinced that corrosion is a factor in the dulling of blades. Most soaps contain chorides, some as much as 4%. It may be the soap residue that is the source of the corrosion.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Corrosion never sleeps, but it can be managed.
One thing not mentioned that is included in the corrosion equation is the skin oils. Not very much there but very corrosive to blades.
My father kept his blades sharp, corrosion free, by using a light coat of lanolin/lanolin oil or during WWII after careful cleaning stored his razors in a sodium bicarbonate solution.
My father kept his blades sharp, corrosion free, by using a light coat of lanolin/lanolin oil or during WWII after careful cleaning stored his razors in a sodium bicarbonate solution.
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- #72
moltenmetal
Chemical
Unbelievable to see so much discussion when the obvious solution is to simply shave less often! I guess most engineers find the technological fix easier than sociological one! As the famous TV pop pseudo-psychologist says, "If you're worried about what other people think about you, you'd probably be surprised by just low infrequently they actually DO think about you!"
I shave (weekly) with an electric razor and I clean up with a DRY dual-blade disposable razor- that helps catch the few long hairs that take forever for the electric razor to completely catch. The primary difference in effectiveness between brands of these disposable two-blade razors haz ZERO to do with edge sharpness or metallurgy and everything to do whether or not the razor has a mechanism for cleaning out the detritus (whiskers, skin and skin oils, shaving cream etc.) which gets stuck between the two blades and renders them BOTH effectively as dull as a garden hoe. No amount of washing with ordinary tapwater will remove this junk sufficiently and eventually you get frustrated and throw them out. If the cutting tool has no edge exposed, it won't cut no matter HOW sharp it is. One or two brands, names of which escape me, have a little plastic device connected to a button at the back of the shaving head which permits you to eject this trapped detritus after every use. These shavers last maybe 10x longer for me than the others, and they work even longer (i.e. 6 months to a year each) if you shave dry.
I shave (weekly) with an electric razor and I clean up with a DRY dual-blade disposable razor- that helps catch the few long hairs that take forever for the electric razor to completely catch. The primary difference in effectiveness between brands of these disposable two-blade razors haz ZERO to do with edge sharpness or metallurgy and everything to do whether or not the razor has a mechanism for cleaning out the detritus (whiskers, skin and skin oils, shaving cream etc.) which gets stuck between the two blades and renders them BOTH effectively as dull as a garden hoe. No amount of washing with ordinary tapwater will remove this junk sufficiently and eventually you get frustrated and throw them out. If the cutting tool has no edge exposed, it won't cut no matter HOW sharp it is. One or two brands, names of which escape me, have a little plastic device connected to a button at the back of the shaving head which permits you to eject this trapped detritus after every use. These shavers last maybe 10x longer for me than the others, and they work even longer (i.e. 6 months to a year each) if you shave dry.
digitalzen
Chemical
- Sep 22, 2005
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Back in my undergrad days, a prof showed us photomicrographs of a razor edge with tiny mineral crystals on it. He said the crystals were the reason for "razor burn," as they created an irregular edge.
He said the way to avoid it was to rinse the blade in COLD water only, dunking it in alcohol immediately after rinsing for the last time and placing it to dry with the edges facing up. He said that the old "razor strop" was just a way of clearing the crystals off the edge of a straight razor.
I've been using his technique for many years. It worked with the older stainless blades, but works even better with the newer ones. I routinely get fifteen to twenty really good shaves out of one blade, and in one case on a job in Central America I managed to push one somewhere over thirty. (That one actually did get dull.)
Corrosion engineering is well and good, but it pays to color outside the lines sometimes.
He said the way to avoid it was to rinse the blade in COLD water only, dunking it in alcohol immediately after rinsing for the last time and placing it to dry with the edges facing up. He said that the old "razor strop" was just a way of clearing the crystals off the edge of a straight razor.
I've been using his technique for many years. It worked with the older stainless blades, but works even better with the newer ones. I routinely get fifteen to twenty really good shaves out of one blade, and in one case on a job in Central America I managed to push one somewhere over thirty. (That one actually did get dull.)
Corrosion engineering is well and good, but it pays to color outside the lines sometimes.
Moltenmetal has my vote for the proper approach. I shave to bare skin once a year (respirator fit testing), trim using a pair of electric clippers once a month. My disposable razor is effectively single-use because the plastic cracks and falls apart before the next use. My snake-oil filled, magnetic aluminum foil pyramid thinking cap was instrumental in coming up with this solution. ;-)
For what it's worth, probably zilch: that pyramid thing was on the mythbuster tv show and I think is was busted, but if one really wants to know; they have a website.
Other than that I would like to add that if you shave with a relatively new razor and are getting razor burn then reduce your pressure. Else, figure out which way your hair grows and cut with the grain.
I used to cut against the grain my entire life and normally had cuts or burns. Now I cut with the grain with reduced pressure and get a visually clean shave without nicks or burns. The smoothness quality is reduced tho.
_______________________________________
Feeling frisky.........
Other than that I would like to add that if you shave with a relatively new razor and are getting razor burn then reduce your pressure. Else, figure out which way your hair grows and cut with the grain.
I used to cut against the grain my entire life and normally had cuts or burns. Now I cut with the grain with reduced pressure and get a visually clean shave without nicks or burns. The smoothness quality is reduced tho.
_______________________________________
Feeling frisky.........
A few months ago I finally broke down and did the numbers. The fancy three blade variety with replaceable heads is actually cheaper than the single bladed totally disposable vairiey.
After using these new,fancy puppies for some weeks, I noticed a dramatic difference in the life of one head vs another. I thought maybe because when I skip a day of shaving that the heavier beard was causing the blades to wear out in two shavngs. Some mornings when I am running late, I don't bother to warm my face with a hot washcloth.
One morning I had a two-day beard but before lathering, I did the warm up procedure: place a wash cloth in the sink (basin) and soak it in hot water. Hold the hot cloth against the cheeks as hot as you can stand it. Smooth shave and the blade lasted several days more. Now I take the time every morning to warm my beard before shaveing and the head has lasted over a week and the shaves are still smooth.
So now we have two more variables to add to the matrix; frequency of use (or vairable beard length)vs life and temperature of face vs life. Maybe I should just get a life !
diamondjim: Yes I have used a straight razor and strop but as a sort of macho experiment. I got lazy and reverted to my safety razor until later swithcing to disposables. Hey -- it's the American way!
tomwaltz: I had a neighbor who had Aluminum foil on his car windows to keep out the beta rays.
After using these new,fancy puppies for some weeks, I noticed a dramatic difference in the life of one head vs another. I thought maybe because when I skip a day of shaving that the heavier beard was causing the blades to wear out in two shavngs. Some mornings when I am running late, I don't bother to warm my face with a hot washcloth.
One morning I had a two-day beard but before lathering, I did the warm up procedure: place a wash cloth in the sink (basin) and soak it in hot water. Hold the hot cloth against the cheeks as hot as you can stand it. Smooth shave and the blade lasted several days more. Now I take the time every morning to warm my beard before shaveing and the head has lasted over a week and the shaves are still smooth.
So now we have two more variables to add to the matrix; frequency of use (or vairable beard length)vs life and temperature of face vs life. Maybe I should just get a life !
diamondjim: Yes I have used a straight razor and strop but as a sort of macho experiment. I got lazy and reverted to my safety razor until later swithcing to disposables. Hey -- it's the American way!
tomwaltz: I had a neighbor who had Aluminum foil on his car windows to keep out the beta rays.
Wilkinson had a "platinum" blade -- wasis plated with Pt ?
If one side ofthe blade were plated with TiC or diamond
(diamon-like carbon ??) you could actually sharpen it by corroding the metal away.
<nbucska@pcperipherals DOT com> subj: eng-tips
read FAQ240-1032
If one side ofthe blade were plated with TiC or diamond
(diamon-like carbon ??) you could actually sharpen it by corroding the metal away.
<nbucska@pcperipherals DOT com> subj: eng-tips
read FAQ240-1032
Quick update.
Still using the same 3-blade razor head and warming my face with a hot washcloth like the old-timey babers.
Appears to me that if corrosion is an issue, it is a long-term issue. I wore out a 3-blade head in two shavings by cutting a two day old beard without heating my face. Monday I shaved a three day old beard and have been continuosly using the same 3-blade head for more than ten days. Usually a 3-blade head will last 3-4 days or shavings.
Still using the same 3-blade razor head and warming my face with a hot washcloth like the old-timey babers.
Appears to me that if corrosion is an issue, it is a long-term issue. I wore out a 3-blade head in two shavings by cutting a two day old beard without heating my face. Monday I shaved a three day old beard and have been continuosly using the same 3-blade head for more than ten days. Usually a 3-blade head will last 3-4 days or shavings.
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