Keeper of the Knowledge Mentality 4

[sam74]

I was just curious if to see if anyone else had similar experiences in the past or now for that matter.

I started in the field doing surveying and construction inspection for about a year an a half in the mid to late 90s. When I came back in the office (a 50 year old full services consulting company) only very few people had limited access to the internet.

It appeared as if all the older guys had rat holed all the information they could in order to be the go to person or only distribute it as they saw fit. That is what I mean by "keepers of the knowledge". Job security was my reasoning behind them doing this.

Well a few years down the road and everybody has internet access and access to much if not all the information. There went much of the "keepers of the knowledge" job security. I know that a lot of these guys have lost their jobs in the recession. I have also twice now.

When I do have opportunities to interview sometimes I can't help but wonder if the guys interviewing me are some of the leftover "keepers of the knowledge" who are scared that I've got field experience and can do my own design.

One in paricular was on my first layoff. I applied for a civil designer position because that was what was posted (I've got a PE). I got a four hour interview meeting amongst several different people. The first and most important would be my direct supervisor who had been there 15 years and had a civil designer doing his design. I explained that I could design and stamp my own work and I think I scared him off.

Any thoughts on this rambling post?

 

[rowingengineer]

I would be what you call a keeper of knowledge, not because I what to keep it from people but because most engineers these days are reluctant to want to read it until it directly affects their project. And even then they would rather quiz me then read the book.

There is a rule that says never hire someone that can replace you within a year. reason is that everyone generally looks good for the year, never used the rule myself, but I know a few who wished they had.


An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a very narrow field

 

[jmw]

I think there is a difference here between custodian - Rowing Engineer - who has the knowledge and would like nothing better than to share, and a "Keeper" of the knowledge, meaning some one who wants to keep the knowledge to themselves.
I've known a few and getting them to share would be like trying to get as pay rise in a recession.

These guys can be full of tricks because they are out for number one.

One guy I knew not only had to be subjected to inquisitorial techniques to get any knowledge but he also had a few other tricks not good for the company. For example, as the service manager he would insist that no electronics went out configured. The client would just get the electronics and an 80 page manual.
Quizzed about this he said it was because that way he could meet his target for service work by commissioning equipment on site.
The trouble is sales didn't quote the commissioning service because it added to the costs and the conceit was that these were "straight from the box" "plug n play" "fit and forget" (add your own management speak).
Of course the end user hadn't budgeted for commissioning. So, either they called in the sales guy who had to do it for free and which upset the service manager no end (he was forever stirring it up) or the end user would settle down with the manual (or give it to a work experience junior) and attempt to configure the unit themselves.
The services manager was forced to admit that because so few people took up commissioning and couldn't get free support from sales that most of the end user configured units would be brought to "just about functioning" state i.e. far from optimum.

Of course, to clamp down on freeby sales support the manager kept a lot of commissioning "secrets" to himself.

Very damaging and not only did this guy do this for virtually his whole career, management appeared powerless to do anything about it.



JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[TheTick]

You are too kind. They are called "trolls".

 

[ornerynorsk]

When it comes to the technical disciplines, be it engineering, tool & die, etc, people will not remain static, you either become an "asker" or an "answerer". Being a keeper of the knowledge does not come by choice, at least in my case.

After one works in a place for a month or two, it becomes apparant to others that you are of the competent type, actually know what you are doing, and get things done successfully. You become a resource to the company. There are just so many slackers and incompetents in the workforce that it just doesn't take much to shine. I've personally not had the experience with anyone "hoarding" proprietary information just for the sake of job security, although I'm sure it happens.

 

[btrueblood]

I've seen the mentality. It's usually not hard to back somebody of that ilk into a corner, and hoist them on their own petard ("but you said y, and it's clearly x, what gives?).

I've also seen and met persons that others branded with that moniker, who were more than happy to discourse at length with their experience and volumes of prior art, test data, and even design drawings. They just wanted to be asked, politely.

 

[SomptingGuy]

I've just completed a tome on everything I know about one of our programs: how it works; why it's written that way; why I think it's better than the competition. I think my bosses fear that I may get hit by a bus, or worse, hit by a better job offer. The counter-theory is that they want me to make myself expendable.

- Steve

 

[MechEng2005]

I hope I'm not perceived as a "keeper", but I could see where I would be. I have made Excel spreadsheets with a number of more complex tasks (i.e. not simple addition). I don't always share these with my co-worker, because I don't have the time to put the proper "safety features" into the spreadsheet. For example, if I have a spreadsheet calculating convective heat transfer, I'm not likely to share it with somebody that hasn't heard the word "laminar" and "turbulent", because the spreadsheet is likely only written for one of those conditions. Until I have time and desire to put a line to make the answer read "ERROR" instead of a number if there are invalid assumptions, I won't share it with anybody that I don't think is competent and willing to review and understand it.

Unfortunately, sometimes I think the "creator" of knowledge is held accountable for its misapplication. Until that changes, I think less harm is done by "hoarding" than allowing others to put "garbage in" and blame others for "garbage out".

-- MechEng2005

 

[TheTick]

More often I'm an "answer guy", not a "question guy". I'm also "teacher guy". I have no interest in hoarding knowledge. I'd rather people learn and move on, (at least move on to more intelligent questions).

 

[monkeydog]

I worked with a group of guys many years ago, that survived several seasons of layoffs in the company. When things got real busy, and a small army was growing in the program, a few of the horders were difficult to get info from.

One guy relayed a story of when he went to one of the horders with a question, he reached into his desk, pulled out a folded up paper, opened it up like it was a poker hand, and gave him just enough info for him to leave and finish his task.

They are all gone now, and this was before any ISO, tribal knowledge etc became a buzz word.

 

[sam74]

MechEng2005,

No, to me you sound more like one of my mentors. Extremely smart and created many of his own mathcad sheets to perform various tasks. He also had much more software on his computer that was generally unavailable to others. I would get to use his computer and software when he was away. I respected him and his intelligence very much.

I could see how it could be perceived that he, or others like him, were "keepers" if a person did not work with him but he truly was a giver. And his intelligence shined where as the "keepers" do not. Keepers are obviously veiled.

 

[jmw]

Interesting.
I think there is a difference between sharing knowledge and work.
The use of spreadsheets is a topic which can generate some strong opinions.
I am happy to share my spreadsheets mainly because I see them as tools.

But the concerns MechEng2005 has about releasing this sort of tool are perhaps more deeply felt by some others.
Arguably when you share a spreadsheet you are not actually sharing knowledge. Too many people will not care how and why it does what it does the way it does.

To share the knowledge it is perhaps better to explain what the sheet does and then encourage the would be user to create their own.

Making your own spreadsheets teaches you two things:
How to use Excel better.
To understand the particular subject much better.

This is where we get into that "if you give a hungry man a fish, he will eat today. If you teach him to catch fish he will eat for life (his marriage might suffer but that isn't our concern)."
It could be argued that by handing out the spreadsheets you actually impede the learning process.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[KENAT]

Hmm maybe I'm sometimes guilty.

I'm all for 'teaching a man to fish' but sometimes the time required to 'teach him to fish' isn't available. So, sometimes I'll just catch the fish for them as it takes less of my time in the short term.

Likewise if you know they're only going to be going fishing occasionally, or short term for your company, and you're already slammed does it make sense to take the time out to teach them to fish or do it yourself?

Don't get me wrong, I've spent a lot of time helping/teaching interns, trainees or colleagues. However, each time I try to make an assessment of if it's better to spend more time teaching them, or less time (in the short term at least) doing it myself. If it's something they'll be doing a lot then I obviously teach them.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[debodine]

I used to work with some civil servants when I was in the US Air Force. One technician in particular was the "owner" of the radar test bench. Over the years he had modified the radar bench to his liking and all the changes were in his head.

I did not like this and complained often because I had a lot of radar experience but often had unsolveable problems when testing radar on his bench, but I had few stripes and no friends among the high level civilians.

Then a higher ranking and more experienced radar technician was transferred to our outfit who also had a long history of being stationed with our newly installed commander. Very soon our shop chief was given a direct order to let our new radar tech rebuild the radar bench to the technical order specifications, and to document the entire rig via appropriate drawings.

Two days after the completely built rig was running per specifications and all the radar technicians could run the bench, the bench "owner" turned in his retirement papers. No one complained.

 

[jmw]

Ah!
Documentation, a must have.

About thirty years ago when the group that owned our company bought a few new businesses and closed a factory in Scotland and in Cornwall and passed the manufacturing to our site, the first production runs produced nothing but scrap even though everything was to drawing.
The problem was the drawings always produced scrap but the machine operators knew which way to bias all the measurements but never documented it.





JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[apsix]

I'm all for 'teaching a man to fish' but sometimes the intelligence/application required to 'learn to fish' just isn't there.

Then I just get annoyed and hand over the fish.

One thing I don't have is endless patience, perhaps I don't even have enough patience.

 

[KENAT]

apsix, too true. I was thinking that in the back of my head when I was typing.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[HgTX]

I work with someone who is a keeper of information. Not technical knowledge; that's me, and I'm desperatly trying to pass on my knowledge only there are awfully few opportunities to do so. The keeper of information keeps information about who is doing what and when, and views information as ammunition to be deployed when necessary to increase one's advantage. It's terribly frustrating.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[dbooker630]

This issue actually came up during an ISO 14001 audit at our shop, where we had to contact a retiree for some information that should have been available to his successors. The assessor did not write up a finding but strongly recommended putting a system in place for transfer of knowledge.

 

[plasgears]

It's good to routinely produce Work Instructions to cover routines not obvious to the unexperienced. It helps the newbies and helps produce efficient operations. ISO9000 encourages this.