Kitchen Hood Fire Suppression

[trashcanman]

Is there a code reference that says exposed fire protection piping for a commercial kitchen hood shall be stainless steel or chrome plated? I think there is, but cannot find it in NFPA or IMC. I cannot see using black steel over food preparation activities. All kitchen equipment for food prep that I have seen is always stainless steel.

I certainly would not sign off on a design using black steel, but know others who would.

I have taken the Ansul Training course and argued with the instructor to no avail on this matter.

Opinions?

 

[cdafd]

Refer to manufacture specs since these are pre engineered systems

some stoves are steel some pans are steel, not sure what the problem is???

anything you install will get greasy

 

[DRWeig]

Trashcanman,

I've seen lots of plain black steel in hoods, I don't think there's a building code that specifies material finish.

Health department inspectors will get into the fray if the pipes begin to rust, since flaking will follow eventually. However, as cdafd noted, they'll get nice and greasy after the first day of cooking so corrosion is hardly ever an issue.

If concerned about appearance or corrosion, stainless is a good solution, as is epoxy paint.

Let us know if you find anything different!

Good on ya,

Goober Dave

 

[trashcanman]

It is true that NFPA and IMC both allow black iron pipe. What about corrosion where stainless or chrome plated nozzles are connected to black steel piping?

 

[cdafd]

That is what the grease is there for to stop the corrision

 

[stookeyfpe]

Wet chemical systems are pre-engineered systems. I haven't spent a lot of time studying the manuals but all require carbon steel piping. I think it is because of the ease of threading carbon steel versus stainless piping.

Neither the IMC, IFC or NFPA 17A require stainless piping. You can want it it, but it is not required, and I see someone wanting the fire codes to get into the food safety business. It's not our job.

 

[DM2]

You may want to check out the requirements from the FDA. When you protecting appliances in a cooking application where food is shipped across State Lines, the FDA will have something to say about it.

Regards
Dan Marr

 

[stookeyfpe]

How does shipping food across state lines relate to the design of a kitchen hood fire extinguishing system?

 

[DM2]

Stookeyfpe,
The FDA regulates food transported across state lines as well as the manufacturing process.

They (and I'm paraphrasing here) have a cleaning or grade (I suspect based on material that could be left in some the metals) and require materials like stainless steel to be used. That's why you'll see some manufacturers offering "Stainless Steel" nozzles.

This is more common in "Deep Fat" fryers, that are some 20+ feet long. I've just finished a report on the use of UL 300 systems for such applications. The report was based on a fryer that used a CO2 system and didn't extinguish the fire. The local AHJ wanted a UL 300 system however there isn't such an animal, in the strictest sense of the word. The fryer was used to cook foods that are frozen and than shipped across state lines.

You'll find that NFPA 12 has no supporting documentation for their method of protecting these appliances. While the quantity referenced in the standard is sufficient, the application doesn't provide for cooling down the grease.

The testing to UL 300 has some stringent "Splash" requirements for fryers. Some hoods are in such close proximity to the grease it isn't possible to discharge these system without splashing the grease.

 

[stookeyfpe]

You are mixing apples with fuel injectors.

The original question asked about piping - not about nozzles. Now you bring in a new problem about frozen food, which has no relevance to piping, or the original question that was posted.

A CO2 system is allowed by the IFC if it was listed, but is no longer considered as an acceptable system for the protection of commerical cooking operations. Currently, based on listings, the only viable protection method is a NFPA 17A complainat system.

Sorry to be so blunt but what the hell is the question?

 

[DM2]

Stookeyfpe,
The original question was whether there was a code reference for commercial kitchen fire suppression systems that required the pipe to be either stainless steel or chrome plated. The question didn't distinguish whether the "...commercial kitchen..." was preparing food to be transported across state lines or not.

Considering how the question was presented, the answer is yes! "...commercial kitchens..." that prepare food for transportation across state lines are required to use stainless steel material (including pipe) when in the vicinity of the hood. Have a closer look at my post. My reference was to "...stainless steel material...". Pointing out the stainless steel nozzles was only as a point of reference.

I referenced frozen foods only because of a current project I'm involved in. However the same is true in the potato chip industry and other similar such applications.

As far as listings are concerned you need to have another read of the IFC and a better understanding of the listing and testing of CO2 equipment. Unlike typical wet chemical systems listed to UL 300, UL has no test standard for the performance of CO2 like they do for halocarbon agents or wet chemical systems. Also nothing in NFPA 12, 2005 or 2008 edition prohibits the use of these systems in this application.

NFPA 17A requires the use of UL 300 systems. UL 300 prohibits the use of systems on deep fat fryers greater than 6 square feet that haven't been specifically tested on that appliance. There is only 1 manufacture that does have that listing but it's limited to fryers shorter than the application I'm currently involved with and most deep fat fryers used in the preparation of foods being transported across state lines, exceed that particular manufactures approval.

Don't be sorry for being blunt...

 

[stookeyfpe]

I am going to play dumb:

You are applying truly commerical food cooking technology, designed for thousands pounds/hour to NFPA 17A (I think). The original post (which is what I am hanging my hat on) was more than likely on a resturant.

If what you are working on is a some major manufacturing operation, neither the IFC nor any NFPA standard has considered that.

Your comfy with the design - cool. It's your seal. I avoid such applications because I am so unfamiliar with them.

 

[DM2]

I would agree that it's likely a typical restaurant which was at issue. However I've heard, all too often, a broad question raised because someone is unsure how to best phrase the question, answered with a statement which doesn't apply in all situations for which the question was raised.

I've also seen too much bantering, or questions about questions, which to me are a waist of time. I'd just as soon throw out a bit of information and if the inquisitor finds the answer addresses his/her question, but is in need of additional clarification, offer it in anther post.

Anyway...let me step off my soap box.