Large stone veneer panel 3

[COEngineeer]

OK I have this project where some part of the exterior wall will be covered with 3'wide x 3.5'high stone veneer panel. The veneer will probably be 2" thick. Usually on regular stone veneer I just provide an angle or dry stack cmu on the foundation and let the mason do the rest. This time the city wants a detail on how to attach this veneer. Does anyone have any idea? The architect and I both agree that we will put a slot at the top and bottom edge. Now how do I attach these panels to the studs? I want to make sure it will be an easy procedure.

 

[whyun]

I'm not up to speed with the IBC series. In the 1997 UBC, refer to Volume 1, Chapter 14. The veneer size you have exceeds the limits for adhered veneer. Refer to 1403.6 for requirements for anchored veneer.

Better yet, search the IBC for the corresponding section for this topic.

 

[COEngineeer]

Yeah, I know it has to be anchored to the studs. I just want to find a good solution witout drilling holes trough the face of the veneer. I want to put a slot on top and bottom of the veneer.

 

[blake989]

google Heckmann building products...they'll have what you need.

 

[dik]

Not sure if applicable, but the ledger angle at the bottom has a bar or pins welded to it and the bottom of the stone has a slot parallel to the face to engage the pins or the bar.

The next level of stone is supported on the bottom with 1/8" dovetail straps with a 1/4" hole to fit a 1/4" pin that entends from a hole in the lower panel, through the hole in the dovetail strap and into the panel above.In the 3' panel the pins could be at 6", 2', 6"...

All materials are stainless... have to watch the welding of the bar/pins to the shelf angle.

Dik

 

[COEngineeer]

blake, thanks for the help! That is exactly what I am looking for.

dik, im not sure if i can follow what you are saying on your second paragraph. But here is what I would like to do. What do you guys think?

The whole veneer on the wall will be supported by stainless angle with thru-bolts @ 16" o.c (each stud wall)

1st level of stone I will put this product on each side of the stone (create a slot on each side).

http://www.heckmannbuildingprods.com/Submit/285.pdf

2nd level I will use the same product at the bottom, maybe 2 each stone. I bend will hold the 1st level, the other bend will hold 2nd level. I will use lag screw to stud or blocking in the wall.

Are you guys following me? What do you think?

 

[dik]

Maybe the description wasn't good enough... if you can picture holding a steel strap flat against a piece of stone and drill a hole through it 1-1/2" deep into the stone. Insert a 3" rod into the hole, passing through the strap and into the stone. It projects upwards 1-1/2". Picture drilling a hole 1-1/2" deep into the stone above and sit the stone above on to the pin. The pin passes into the stone above and below with a steel strap between.

 

[swivel63]

butterfly clips? that's what another engineer specified in a job that was similar. i'm not sure how to describe it...but it's basically a clip with a flange (lack of a better term) that "butterflies" up and down. i probably just rambled without helping you, LOL.

 

[swivel63]

lol, nevermind COE.....that pic you have pretty much shows that i butchered in my description.

 

[COEngineeer]

I will post picture of what I ended up doing. I dont have the file at home.

 

[jike]

I would suggest that you purchase the Indiana Limestone Institute Handbook. It contains design procedures and details. I believe Archtiectural Graphic Standards also contains some stone details.

http://www.iliai.com/index.php?pageId=47

Please note that 2" veneer is very thin and will require taking a very close look at loads, stresses and tolerances.

 

[dik]

swivel63... I think butterfly clips are straps, split at one end, with one tab bent upwards and one tap bent downwards. They fit into a slot in the stone panel below and the stone panel above.

Dik

 

[COEngineeer]

What do you guys think?

 

[pinehurst]

Interesting discussion. The detail should work structurally; however, be advised that for stone less than 75 mm in thickness, each stone must be individually supported. That is, independent support for each stone unit is required, at least according to Canadian Standards Association. Multiple stone units can only be stacked if the stone thickness is in excess of 75 mm. Also, in my own experience, I prefer lateral support anchorage along the sides, usually four to six inches from each bed joint. In that regard, moisture which penetrates the cavity is not directed into the kerf or anchor holes.

 

[jike]

Are you thru bolting the studs? Have you considered that the bolt head and nut will require a space between the angle and the back of the stone?

I would suggest that the angle be welded to the studs. The studs should be sized for the eccentric weight from the stone veneer as well as wind and seismic as may be applicable.

You could weld a continous rod on the top of the horizontal leg of the angle that could engage a groove in the bottom of the stone panel. This would eliminate the need for the additional lower level connections.

I hope this helps!

 

[COEngineeer]

Jike, you have the same idea as dik. But I thought it would be easier if we get rid off welding. Which one do you think will work better jike?

Pinehurst, thanks for you feedback. Can someone help me find out if the US has similar code for veneer thinner than 3" (75mm)? Pine, to be frank I am a pretty green engineer, what do you mean by lateral support anchorage?

Jike thanks, I will resize the angle and the clips. I forgot about the thru-bolt head. I am not sure what u mean by angle should be welded to studs? This is a residential construction and all i have are 2x6 studs.

 

[swivel63]

@ dik

that's the point i was trying to make, lol.....but i wasn't sure if that was the correct terminology. that's pretty much what this other engineer used, in a similar pattern to COE.

 

[dik]

pinehurst is correct. In Canada, if the veneer is less than 75mm (3", actual dimension, not nominal), then it is considered as thin veneer and each panel must be supported. I don't have the current masonry code, but under the 94 code under empiracle design, there was no restriction on the veneer thickness, except that the manner of attachment had to conform to CSA A371 which stipulates a minimum thickness. Under A371 there is also an area requirement where the panel cannot exceed an area of 2.25m^2 and cannot have an overall dimension of 1.8m.

If you're welding stainless, you have to watch for 'rusting' of the weld area.

 

[henri2]

CO Engineer,

The US Code reference I am aware of is IBC Sec 1405.5 which directs you to other applicable portions of the IBC and the MSJC Code ...the latter, takes into account the SDC assigned.

BTW, what is the SDC?

 

[jike]

I didn't realize that you are using wood studs. Won't the 3/4" diameter thru bolts interfer with the interior finish? Would they be installed between studs into blocking? Would lag bolts be a better solution?

I didn't realize djk had proposed the same detail at the angle. I need to read closer.