Lead Engineer has no PE 1

[fishstunts]

Is it common that a boss guy having the title "Lead Engineer" has no PE license and directs the work of other PE's that do? Every lead in my company has no license. Makes me a little concerned about using my license to stamp drawings when my boss has no legal responsibility if something goes wrong. The projects we work on are in multiple states, currently NC and GA.

 

[francesca]

Whether or not your boss has a license makes no difference if you're stamping the drawings. Either way you're responsible. People can call themselves what they like. In my company the title "Lead Engineer" is assigned to a pay grade. You're supposed to have a license to get that pay grade but the pay grade rules are flouted left and right. In fact, in my practice area currently we're building models not cranking out plans and so I'm the rare exception being licensed. Someone without a college degree in my group calls himself a "Senior Engineer."

 

[msquared48]

I'd be interested if this is advertised as an engineering company, and as providing licensed engineefing services. I do know where you are located, but in Wasnington State, if this is a Corporation, the pwner must be a licensed professional engineer to make such a claim. I would have to chxeck it the same applies to other types.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[fishstunts]

This is a fortune 500 engineering and construction corp. I was just amazed coming from small firms where you had to have a PE to be a boss guy, but in this large corp. they can hire anyone and call them a senoir or lead engineer. I looked up the rules in NC and found that as long as they do not use the words "professional" or "licensed" then its legal.

Thanks,
John

 

[Ron]

Major Pet Peeve!!

It is unprofessional and usurps the concept of professional engineering to use the title "engineer" when you are not one. The only exception, in my opinion, is for those in "exempt" professions in industry. The construction industry is not one of those.

Using the term "engineer" implies that you have a level of education and expertise that is more than the average Joe. To do so without such education and expertise is a fraudulent mischaracterization of your qualifications.

Some states are more stringent in restricting the use of the term "engineer", with or without the qualifiers of "licensed", "registered", or "professional". I applaud these states and would like to see all states adopt more stringent rules on the use of the term.

 

[msquared48]

I fully agree Ron.

Seems like we have had this discussion before...

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[dik]

In some jurisdictions, he cannot use the title Engineer, let alone Lead Engineer if he is not registered in that jurisdiction.

Dik

 

[bimr]

Practicing illegally is the same as speeding. You are not in trouble unless you get caught. Unfortunately, there is little policing going on.

Look up the laws on registration in your state. In most states, it is illegal to call yourself or identify yourself as an "engineer" unless you are licensed.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Lots of good ideas here. In most states the owner does not have to be the engineer - but MUST appoint the "chief" Don't forget publicly traded companies have "lots" of owners.

The chief MUST be a licensed engineer and in the states where they practice. Also - in many states you need a COA which will ask who the "chief" is.

And anything you seal - you own!

 

[beej67]

At my last firm, the two best civil designers they had were not PEs. One's title was "Design Manager" and the other was "Project Manager." Both were above PEs and EITs on the ladder because they were good at what they did, but neither stamped plans. Neither had the word "engineer" on their business card either.

In my opinion, if you're at a design firm, and you're not a PE or EIT, you should not have the word "engineer" in your title. I've known lots of folks who were "project engineers" on a job site, though, who weren't licensed and I never thought twice about it.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[cvg]

I work for a large, publicly traded company operating in numerous states and countries. to my knowledge we may not have a "chief" engineer. possibly in some divisions they may. either way, there are hundreds of owners since anybody owning stock including myself would be considered part "owner". however stock holders only elect the board. the board hires the corporate management and the management hires the division managers and office managers who may or may not be engineers. however, at least in this state, the Board of Tech. Registration requires that the "Principles" in charge of the engineering done in the office register with the state and that they must be in good standing. In the industrial divisions, they often do have an engineering manager (possibly a chief engineer) who is registered, but most of the staff is not. they generally are not required to stamp any work they do

 

[bimr]

There is no requirement for a "chief engineer".

In general, by law all technical submittals are required to be sealed. Here is an example:

"Every licensed professional engineer shall have a reproducible seal or facsimile, which may be computer generated, the impression of which shall contain the name, the license number of the professional engineer, and the words "Licensed Professional Engineer of Illinois". A professional engineer shall seal all documents prepared by or under the direct supervision and control of the professional engineer. Any document that bears the name of a professional design firm, rather than bearing the name of the individual licensed professional engineer responsible for the document, shall be deemed an invalid seal. The individual licensee's written signature and date of signing, along with the date of license expiration, shall be placed adjacent to the seal. Computer generated signatures will not be permitted."

Note there is no exception for industrial work.

However, unless submittals are submitted to government agencies, there is no enforcement of the seal requirements.

Lastly, you can not call yourself an engineer unless you are licensed:

"(o) "Professional engineering practice" means the consultation on, conception, investigation, evaluation, planning, and design of, and selection of materials to be used in, administration of construction contracts for, or site observation of, an engineering system or facility, where such consultation, conception, investigation, evaluation, planning, design, selection, administration, or observation requires extensive knowledge of engineering laws, formulae, materials, practice, and construction methods. A person shall be construed to practice or offer to practice professional engineering, within the meaning and intent of this Act, who practices, or who, by verbal claim, sign, advertisement, letterhead, card, or any other way, is represented to be a professional engineer, or through the use of the initials "P.E." or the title "engineer" or any of its derivations or some other title implies licensure as a professional engineer, or holds himself out as able to perform any service which is recognized as professional engineering practice."

Thats why people call themselves Project Managers, Associates, or whatever. I guess these terms sound better whatever.

There is a definitely a need for engineers to self police their profession. Have you ever heard of a doctor or lawyer practicing without a license?

 

[msquared48]

Yes, but not legally.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[cvg]

re: industrial work exemption

industrial work is clearly exempt, at least in some states as described in this state statute:


Title 32 - Professions and Occupations
Article 3 Regulatory Provisions
32-144. Exemptions and limitations

C. The requirements of this chapter shall not apply to work done by any communications common carrier or its affiliates or any public service corporation or manufacturing industry or by full-time employees of any of them, provided such work is in connection with or incidental to the products, systems or nonengineering services of such communications common carrier or its affiliates or public service corporation or manufacturing industry, and provided that the engineering service is not offered directly to the public.

If such plans are submitted to government agencies as you indicated, then they need to be sealed by a registrant.

 

[bimr]

I am referring to industrial construction projects like fishstunts is describing that are completed by a "fortune 500 engineering and construction corp".

I understand what you are trying to say, but what you are referencing is "manufacturing" not industrial.

Work involving administration of construction contracts for, or site observation of, an engineering system or facility, for industrial purposes should be performed by a licensed engineer.

Sealed drawings are required for construction of an industrial facility like an automobile manufacturing plant. However, you correctly point out that you do not need to be an engineer to work in the automobile manufacturing plant.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

YES - We have had this discussion numerous times and I use "chief" engineer loosely - esp because I am the chief, head, lead, director, best paid, most experienced (whatever term you want) engineer here.

Regardless - look up the state code and FOLLOW it.

 

[msquared48]

The only "lead engineer"'s I have seen have needed to get out of their seats, and start by getting the "lead" out of their a##.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[MiketheEngineer]

M^2

No $hit and I spend more time out of my chair than in it.....

That's how you become a "led" engineer

 

[EBSEngineering]

Fortunately in Canada you cannot use the term "engineer" at all unless you are a registered professional engineer. It is protected under law.

Doesn't stop some people though, but they usually end up in court with a whole bunch of problems.

 

[cvg]

Makes me a little concerned about using my license to stamp drawings when my boss has no legal responsibility if something goes wrong.

professional liability insurance covers claims made against the company and it's employees. You and the "Lead Engineer" are both covered, regardless who stamped the plans or who is registered.

However, if a complaint were made to the Board of Technical Registration, they could issue a fine or some other discipline against you personally if the complaint was substantiated.