Lean Six Sigma, Catia, & Pro Engineer 8

[mfgenggear]

Has any one has recently trained in the above.
or has experience that has words of wisdom.

I need to get up to date. Seems it's the buzz word on on posted jobs.

Thanks

Mfgenggear

 

[Jetgirl8]

Hmmm... process control (lean six sigma) and computer aided drafting software packages (Catia and Pro/Engineer). I would say get training in the topics that further your interests. Personally, I'd start looking for a new job if my current job wanted to send me to Lean Six Sigma training. I'd much rather stay on the hands-on design/analysis side, so I'd look for the Catia/Pro-E training myself (and only the package that the company I really want to work for uses...). Don't know if that really helps you out any, though.

When the future's architectured
By a carnival of idiots on show
You'd better lie low

 

[GregLocock]

6S is OK, it is several old techniques bundled up with new names and sold to management. Ignore the heavy maths it is all guesswork with a veneer of statistical respectability. Plot graphs.

Lean is very interesting to me. Read The Goal by Goldblatt.

The other two things are just ways of arranging 1s and 0s to satisfy some arbitrary criterion. Apparently some people have a preference as to which program is used.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[KENAT]

I recently did DFMx which is an aspect of six sigma - you can see my thread on that topic if you care.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[tygerdawg]

In my (too many) decades of manufacturing engineering work, I've had 6S training, exposure, and applications in a variety of forms. I'm an equally strong advocate and harsh critic. When I was first shown this stuff, it was called "World Class Manufacturing" or something like that...it was the 80's and Japanese Mfg methods were taking their toll on sloppy US automotive quality and pathetic management methods. Nowadays it is much more formalized as a "12-step" or "10-step" methodology. Over the years, I've formed some controversial opinions about it:
[ul]
[li]6S is a fabulously powerful analytical tool to help isolate the main contributor in the pareto chart of problem causes.[/li]
[li]Popularity of 6S comes and goes with the economic cycle. When companies are "sharpening their tools when it's raining," then 6S is the latest short-sighted MBA-doink quick-fix management fad. When they're "making hay while the sun is shining," then 6S advocates are considered bothersome pariahs.[/li]
[li]Most trainings of rigorous 6S is too far advanced mathematically for most folks to handle. It's a rare duck of an engineer that doesn't devote all their energies to surviving & passing an engineering curriculum without successfully avoiding any and all statistics classes. The formal 6S training that I have suffered through assumed one had Master's level credentials in Applied Statistics. How in the world am I supposed to know that I should be analyzing the variances of a data stream rather than the standard deviation ? You're kidding, right?[/li]
[li]The most recent 6S training opened my eyes as to how it can or should be applied in a manufacturing environment. The most recent training was MINITAB-centric and took the course of action to identify ALL root cause contributors of a problem at one time. This was assumed to be a 12-step process that was a planned 4-6 month process before results were released. In my experience, this is not acceptable in a fast-paced manufacturing operation. Another approach in which I was trained (and believe in) is the Shainin 6S method. That method is rigorous 6S, but packaged in a way that reduces the amount of hard math and uses more simple tests and charts. This makes it much more adaptable by shop-floor personnel. Also it's philosophy is to seek & identify the largest root cause contributor in the pareto of causes, allowing the organization to concentrate it's efforts within available workload. Then start over again and seek the next contributor. It follows the continuous improvement philosophy and is very effective.[/li]
[li]6S doesn't solve problems. It identifies root causes. A 6S project can crash and burn massively because the investigator team is still unable to deploy an effective solution, or management will not release the funds to fix it. Everybody loses and 6S is branded as non-effective.[/li]
[li]I'm sure there are some good ones, there MUST be. But too many 6S consultants are vultures & maggots feasting on the twin rotting corpses of corporate management leadership Ability & Intelligence, and they're getting fat doing it.[/li]
[li]The 6S "Belt" culture is corrupt and meaningless. White, Green, Black, Master Black...sheesh. It doesn't mean a thing when I can purchase "certification" for $99 online.[/li]
[/ul]

Lean manufacturing is just something that makes good sense to me. There is a wealth of material available to learn the thought processes and methods. Try lean.org for some leaning materials as a start. It ain't rocket science, just practical application of common sense to most any type of "operations" environment. But there are still plenty of self-proclaimed "Lean Experts" out there who will gladly take your money and blind you with A Flash Of The Obvious.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering

http://www.bluetechnik.com

 

[ports394]

Greg that's not fair. Would you rather use Google Sketchup Pro or Solidworks to draw for work?

 

[KENAT]

My guess is Greg would rather not use either but and stick primarily to analysis, design optimization etc. but I could be wrong.

30 years ago did job adds list what type of pencil you had to use, or what media you were drawings on (tracing paper, vellum, linen, paper...) or what brand of drafting machine/table you had to be on?

OK, that's not a very fair comparison but is I think the root of the issue on 'what CAD system' - it's a means to an end.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[mfgenggear]

engineers do have a sense of humor.

Yes I started on the drafting board too. it was fun!

really google sketch up. engineer

there some pricey schools out there, generally I do not train on any thing unless the target company requires it.

tyger dawg nice write up.

Mfgenggear

 

[mfgenggear]

The Big aviation company's want Catia, some want you to know Eng pro,
I need to take on line classes, then buy a student copy of one of them.

Lean Mfg is what "companies" want their Mfg Eng's to know. my current company does not require it. so may be this helps some.
I have been with this company for 17 years I am out of date. so to speak.

Mfgenggear

 

[ports394]

KENAT, I'm only familiar with AutoCAD and Solidworks. But if importing/exporting files is anything like trying to convert a Word Document to Openoffice or Apple's something or another.. and formatting gets messed up...

 

[IRstuff]

This is hardly new; 25 yrs ago, a secretary couldn't get a job unless SHE knew how to use a Wang word processor. These sorts of things are tiebreakers, given two people with ostensibly otherwise identical qualifications, the one I don't have to train to use Pro/E gets the nod. However, if one applicant is otherwise superior and doesn't have Pro/E experience, but does have Solidworks experience, I'm sure most managers will waive the requirement.

If Pro/E is a key performance parameter (KPP) that's untradeable, that tells you something about the company, doesn't it?

TTFN
faq731-376

 

[KENAT]

Or potentially about the position.

Honestly, when I'm interviewing someone for a position that requires familiarity with a certain CAD package then just having completed some training class doesn't really cut it. Either you've used the tool enough to be useful or you don't really meet the requirement.

That said, I don't think we ask for specific CAD package familiarity any more for engineering positions, though if looking for a CAD administrator or even a dedicated draftsman/designer we might pay a bit more attention.

Are you looking just to nominally hit requirements of job adds, or to really add to your skills mfgenggear?

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[mfgenggear]

IRstuff

Exactly!

However It is easy to get behind. and complacent.
The more info on the subject, & experience, the better informed.

Catia will probably be my choice.
Lean Manufacturing I could really use help with.
Six Sigma I am contiplating the revlance.

Just throwing feelers out there for responces.

Thanks

Mfgenggear

 

[KENAT]

On the Lean/six sigma/DFMA... type stuff. Potentially just having some cert showing you've had some training on one of them or some aspect and then being able to give some examples of where you've applied the principles (even if before formal training) may get you by many places. However, aerospace/defense/big companies can be a bit more bureaucratic on this type of thing.

On the CAD front, I'd guess that CATIA is probably pretty dominant in your desired field to arguably the best choice. However, you may need to be careful of what version of CATIA you do training on etc.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[mfgenggear]

Kenat

It is to improve my skills, Basicly it's like being a Doctor
that has to keep up with times. & not just say I have taken a class.

I have years of Board work, Cad key, & Auto cad.
One has to be proficient to draw & more with the required Cad Package.

Thanks

Mfgenggear

 

[IRstuff]

I wouldn't get too carried away with certificates; I recently had an applicant trot out a stack of certificates and awards, and it was only later on that I realized that he had no engineering degree, and these bits of paper represented his bonafides.

People tend to look upon seminar and short courses as some form of boondoggle, so having too many of the raises the issue of why you had so much free time to do these things.

TTFN
faq731-376

 

[mfgenggear]

IRstuff

that is good feed back.

sincerely gratefully to all for your responses.

I have another 5-10 years left until retirement.
I just like to be ready in case we lose contracts.

maybe I should just stick it out.

Thanks
Mfgenggear

 

[GregLocock]

"Lean" rather got lost in the above. That's sad, to my mind it is a fundamental part of the engineer's toolkit. Admittedly if you aren't a production line guy it may seem a bit irrelevant, but if you regard any part of your job as a process then it bears thinking about.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[mfgenggear]

Greg

Do you have or know of lean mfg examples on a production line?

Yes I am a Jack of all trades, I started out on the production floor.
and yes it is one responsibilities. however that said, The management
has to be behind of these type of tool kits.

I do appreciate all responses.

Thanks

Mfgenggear

 

[GregLocock]

I have worked with a group who set up an entire production line on Lean principles. Looked good to me. As I said, read The Goal.



Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?