Level of detail?

[NewOrleansPE]

I am new to this field, doing residentail projects, mostly home additions. I'm realizing that most drawings that engineers submit to the city building department for permits are really somewhat vague. Sure, it shows the sizes of beam, rafter, joists, footings,roof plans, plot plans,but's it's all "typical detail drawings"

But I don't not see any nailing schedules, brick joint layouts, exsiting framing looks like, or how it will actually tie in to the existing structure out in the field, Just basic level of detail.

When I questioned this, it was explained to me by another experienced PE, that "you dont want to detail EVERYTHING out b/c you won't be there during contruction to inspect or certify it, you let the contractors handle all the little detials on the actual design of it. They know how to do what they do.He said that my stamp/seal only says that this design meets the code and the general design of the home and only the main important details like beam and footing size. Your plans are not a step-by-step or a "how-to" guide on how to actually build the home."

Has anyone found this to be true also? It's a hard concept to grasp. I guess I'm just new at this, and thought everything had to designed.

It feels like I'm in that movie "Training Day"- with the rookie cop who realizes the system is all screwed up".

It can't REALLY be like this....or... can it?...

Thanks!

New Orleans, P.E.

 

[bimr]

The end goal of an engineering plan drawing is to convey all of the required information that will allow someone to construct the facility.

An engineering plan drawing is not a fabrication drawing. Fabrication drawings are submitted during the construction phase of a project.

However, item such as "nailing schedules, brick joint layouts, exsiting framing" should be identifed on the plans either by reference to a building code or design standard.

 

[GoldDredger]

I think this question might get more response in the structural tips area. Structural guys might not even be looking in this area to see the question.

 

[parrot77]

The clients brief is to hire a 'competant' building contractor, who in turn will employ trained carpenters, bricklayers etc. It would be uneconomical for a design engineer to detail every brick course. Proper notes references to codes and specifying the size and strenght of the blocks and mortar should be enough to allow a builder to construct the brick masonry. important timber joints/ nails should be properly designed and annotated.

To get away from the specifics there is a limit to the amount of detail you can supply, you will find they wont follow ity exactly anyway. In addition it would be imossible to police.

I think your boss was trying to tell you that "you cant hold the builders hand" or in other words "you can bring a horse to water but you cant make him drink!!!!!"

 

[JedClampett]

But if you need a certain level of detail to accurately specify your design, like spacing of nails for a plywood disphragm capacity, by all means, include this level of detail.
We're paid to translate codes, loads and materials into structures. We need to make sure there's enough detail to convey the first two into the materials to make a safe assembly.

 

[NewOrleansPE]

Thank you for your replies and advice...

Still making that transition from school to real world - it's so very different.

Thanks!

 

[csd72]

If it is part of the main framing that is required for structural stability of the building then the connections should be noted/detailed by the engineer or the responsibility formally delegated to the contractor.

Noting details of the existing structure on drawing is not necessarily a good thing. If the existing structure varies from that shown then this can be used as ammunition by the contractor to ask for an extra. If it is not shown then the onus is on the contractor to confirm.