Liability of Unsealed/Unstamped Design/Calculations 8

[Jerehmy]

Hello,

Here's my issue. I'm an EIT who thought about making some extra cash on freelance job sites. I've been offered a job to design a retaining wall, but I'm having second thoughts because I don't want to put myself at risk legally.

Am I liable for a design if it is unsealed? Am I allowed to accept payment for the design since I'm not professionally registered?

They're just calculations, what they do with them is their responsibility. Is this a valid argument?


Thanks.

 

[Jerehmy]

TXStructural - That was a hypothetical situation for determining where do you draw the line on who's responsible. I never did any student's homework, it was a made up situation.


Steellion - I'm asking questions for clarification and to learn. If you want to call that "fighting it", so be it. But I'm not arguing for arguments sake. And it was for 5$/hour, not a couple thousands bucks.



To everyone else, thanks for your responses. I guess I'll do something else for extra cash .

 

[msquared48]

$5.00 per hour? This has to be a typo...

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[Jerehmy]

Not a typo.

 

[steellion]

WHAT?! You could make more than that at McDonald’s, without the liability issues and the ethical quandry.

 

[Archie264]

Jerehmy,

Much earlier in my career, after I had accomplished some things, I tried doing something on my own and quickly got in over my head. Thankfully there were no serious or long-term repercussions. As I backed out of the the situation a much more senior engineer took me aside and told me essentially, "Hey fellow, don't beat yourself up over it, many of us have tried stuff like that; you're not the first."

Jerehmy, you have shown a willingness to listen and that bodes well for you. Keep that up and I predict you'll have a long and successful career. I often wonder if the best engineers aren't also the ones who've made the most mistakes while living to tell about it. Their experience came at a price. Or to state it another way, because of their past mistakes they know what minefield to avoid and know the seriousness of what they're attempting to do. Just waxing philosophically about it...

Anyway, good for you for being willing to listen.

 

[msquared48]

If the situation is real, and that is all you intended to charge, legalities aside, you are really demeaning the engineering profession here, as a whole. You really need to rethink what you are doing.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[Archie264]

It sounds to me like he's just new into it and some slimy builder tried to take advantage of him all the way around. Jerehmy, you're worth more than that; don't let them do that to you, bro.

 

[Jerehmy]

Steellion - I didn't accept the job. I questioned the liability and ethics once I had an offer. I couldn't find anything sufficient in my scouring of the internet so I asked here. Some of what I found said to put "Prelimary, not for construction" or something along those lines on it but I still wondered about liability.

In the freelance market you get jobs based on good reviews. The only way to get good reviews is to do jobs. So for someone starting out its near impossible to get a job. So this was gonna be pretty much pro bono to get a job and a good review.

 

[Ron]

Why in hell would you ever consider doing ANYTHING as a potential licensed professional engineer for $5.00 per hour, even while still an EI? We are not f%$*&^#g burger flippers. We are professionals. We provide a professional service. We are not a commodity.

As an engineer you will hold a position of responsibility to the public. You need to understand that your opinion is not for sale, your design is not for sale....only your TIME is for sale...and it is worth something. You have spent a lot of time in school. You will have to pass at least 2 licensing exams that most people wouldn't have a prayer of passing. You then carry a significant responsibility to protect the health, safety and welfare of the public. PLEASE understand this or get a job doing something else.

Sorry if I seem harsh, but I've seen our profession decline because we, as professional engineers, have allowed others to treat us like $h!t. The reason they do that is that we don't stand up for being the professionals that we are. Don't bid for projects...don't compromise your intregrity for profit...educate and convince clients that your services can't be done by someone who has not gone through the agony that you've endured as a student, an intern and finally a licensed professional.

...stepping off soapbox.

 

[Jerehmy]

A couple reasons.

1) I love engineering, I could do it dawn til dusk.
2) I'm broke. Haven't been out of school a year yet and owe 160k in student loans on an engineering salary, so any extra money doing something I enjoy is fine with me.

But I get it now, that's why I asked here first. I'm new, I was unsure about liability and ethics of this situation, so I asked.

 

[msquared48]

Please continue asking... before you act.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[Ron]

Jerehmy...we've all been there. Stick it out. Glad you had enough foresight to ask.
Best of luck and stay involved with Eng-Tips. We beat each other up on occasion, but in general you'll get more insight from this group of misfits than you'll get anywhere else.

 

[msquared48]

Let it never be said that engineers are not emotional.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[Archie264]

Jerehmy,

One other thing: I my career in the midst of a construction recession; there were very few jobs to be had. I was able to land a couple of construction administration jobs (where I was probably of negative net value) and I had those jobs for a couple of years. It was a good intro into the construction industry but I knew I needed to get design experience before it all got away from me. So, when a design job became available and they asked for salary requirements I intentionally low-balled my offer to make sure I was considered. It appealed to the owner's greed (or business sense, if you will, I don't mean it in a bad way). Anyway, it worked and he hired me over probably more knowledgeable applicants.

And I don't regret it for one moment. Like you I love engineering so I did what I had to do to get into the game. I had to make sacrifices to do that, of course. I had to live with my parents and I didn't have any extra cash for any luxury item. But again, it got me started and later I was able to command much more money. So I understand where you're coming from. Don't be discouraged, there will always be a place for people willing to work hard.

 

[Archie264]

Whoops, that top line should read, "I started my career..."

 

[dcarr82775]

I am still hung up on retaining wall less than 20ft not needing a design....

 

[msquared48]

Yea... really... Just did a couple, and they were huge...

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[msquared48]

Jerehmy:

You just gave Ron a coronary. You owe him a BIG bottle of scotch!

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[Jerehmy]

Scotch makes me sad inside. I like designing wood, not eating it haha. What kind of scotch ?

 

[dcarr82775]

I think OSHA lets you cut a slope of less than 20ft without an 'engineered' design.

Bad scotch makes me sad inside. Good Scotch is yummy, yummy yummy yummy.