Liability of Unsealed/Unstamped Design/Calculations 8

[Jerehmy]

Hello,

Here's my issue. I'm an EIT who thought about making some extra cash on freelance job sites. I've been offered a job to design a retaining wall, but I'm having second thoughts because I don't want to put myself at risk legally.

Am I liable for a design if it is unsealed? Am I allowed to accept payment for the design since I'm not professionally registered?

They're just calculations, what they do with them is their responsibility. Is this a valid argument?


Thanks.

 

[steellion]

Why in hell would you ever consider doing ANYTHING as a potential licensed professional engineer for $5.00 per hour, even while still an EI? We are not f%$*&^#g burger flippers. We are professionals. We provide a professional service. We are not a commodity.

No kidding. I doubt the same guy would try to pay an intern doctor $5/hr if he had an illness that needed to be treated. Or a first-year law student to help him out with some legal trouble.

 

[msquared48]

Nothing less than a case of Johnny Walker Red Label.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[Ron]

A little Jack Daniel's would be nice! Just keepin' it in the SE USA!!
Thank you Mike...JW Red is acceptable as well!

 

[msquared48]

Yea. You have to earn more than $5 per hour to afford a case of JWR.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[JAE]

Laphroig

dcarr - yummy is the word.

 

[msquared48]

Looks like the Scotch has taken effect. Have a good weekend all...

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[cliff234]

160k in student loans?

That's insane. I feel sorry for the youngsters graduating today with such a financial boat anchor around their neck from day 1 - especially in this economy and this society where engineers are often treated like a commodity.

My advice to you Jerehmy is to work hard and study hard until you get your PE - and then continue working hard and studying hard for the rest of your career. Never stop asking questions. Read and understand every page of ACI 318, AISC 360, ASCE 7 and all of the other codes and standards applicable what you do.

Even after you get your PE license, be careful about taking on freelance work. I am surprised that no one mentioned this (perhaps they did - I did not read every post), but if you are working for someone full time and you do free lance work on your own, if you get sued (PE or no PE), then your employer may be dragged into the lawsuit. Were I work there is a strict prohibition against anyone freelancing because of this.

I know that I am late to the conversation, but you are like a clueless person strolling through a minefield - completely unaware of the danger. The older I get, the more I realize how little I know. (I have been a PE for 33 years.) I long for the days when I was young and knew everything!

That you asked a question on this forum is a good sign. Good for you.

 

[a2mfk]

Pretty much everything said that needed to be, but may I add:

Are you any good at CAD or any other software? Perhaps you can do some more legit moonlighting doing CAD for a structural engineer, which would be a great learning experience and should pay you better than minimum wage. Saddle up with a solo engineer or small practice and make yourself available on the weekends or at night to do some "grunt work", while keeping your ethics and dignity well intact you can learn from an experienced PE. However, like someone else mentioned, your current employer may frown upon any moonlighting activities.

Don't ever sell yourself short. Shaving a few bucks off to get a job is one thing, but don't be someone's $!#*%, you are worth too much and have worked too hard.

And what is with the oversight of bourbon here fellas? If you like your whiskey filtered through a grill, errr, maple charcoal, then go ahead and drink Jack. If you like overpriced whiskey aged in recycled bourbon barrels, be my guest and drink Scotch. Dollar for dollar, hard to beat Kentucky's finest. And no matter your drink of choice, when in Kentucky you should check out some of the distillery tours. Fun for any engineer, double fun if you like whiskey, I mean BOURBON!

 

[ztengguy]

Go get a part time job at HD or Lowes. work in the electrical or plumbing department, you will always need to know that stuff, its usually mindless work, and (used too) pay ok. Just part time 16-20 hrs a week you can earn 12-15K.

That will help you pay your loans down, and thru contacts, can meet some contractors that you can (in the future) do work for.

 

[dcarr82775]

To be clear, Bourbon is also yummy yummy yummy. But like Ron Burgandy said, "I love Scotch. Scotchy Scotch Scotch. Here it goes down, down in my belly". Bourbon has too many syllables to work in that song.

 

[Spartan5]

160k in student loans?

That's insane. I feel sorry for the youngsters graduating today with such a financial boat anchor around their neck from day 1 - especially in this economy and this society where engineers are often treated like a commodity.

Much of that is a self-inflicted wound. Being just 10+ years removed from school myself, I know a lot has changed; but a lot hasn't.

I was two years at community college before I knew I wanted to be an engineer. I spent another year there picking up prereqs before I went to university. Three years later I was an EIT. Grand total debt: $20K. Today I think I'm in the hole maybe $3K. It's at 3%. I pay the minimum. That was all on my dime with a small scholarship.

I worked full time while going to community college. I worked 60 hour work weeks at a lumberyard over my summer breaks while at university; and 20 hour weeks while school was in session. Oh yeah, and I lived in a dive off campus. It was hard, and not your "typical" college experience. But I don't think that that's worth an extra $100K.

Kids these days? I'm not old enough for that.

Even after you get your PE license, be careful about taking on freelance work. I am surprised that no one mentioned this (perhaps they did - I did not read every post), but if you are working for someone full time and you do free lance work on your own, if you get sued (PE or no PE), then your employer may be dragged into the lawsuit. Were I work there is a strict prohibition against anyone freelancing because of this.

As for moonlighting with your own license in the future, make sure you fully disclose what you are doing to your employer. They might be slightly displeased that you are lightening their workload. Even if you take the greatest of care to not look at those emails, answer those phone calls, peek at those references/codes while under their roof; the potential for a perceived conflict of interest is ever present.

 

[Jerehmy]

Spartan5 - 4 years undergrad was 60k. 2 years Grad school at Lehigh was 90k. 10k interest consolidated at repayment = 160k. A lot of my friends I graduated with are over the 100k if they didn't have a scholarship.

 

[msquared48]

Man things are different now. Went to school as a freshman at $115.00 per quarter plus books and left after six years and grad school at $180.00 per quarter plus books. My full time summer job and part time job during school paid for my tuition, but I was able to live at home. That made a whole lot of difference.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[ztengguy]

Sorry but you wasted your money at Grad school.

 

[Archie264]

Jerehmy,

Grad school at Lehigh? Congrats, that's impressive. I see now that I should be asking you for advice. I think you'll do ok...

 

[Jerehmy]

ztengguy - My undergrad was Math and Physics, not engineering. So I had no choice but to go to Grad school. I don't want to get into why it happened that way haha.

 

[Archie264]

Whoops, ztengguy's post and mine crossed in the mail. And it looks like we see things a bit differently.

Zt, Jerehmy didn't say he studied engineering undergrad. Some people go to liberal arts schools and wind up being drawn to math or physics. For them grad school is a way to get into engineering and is certainly not a waste. But even for those who do study engineering undergrad I wouldn't be too quick to say grad school is a waste, though it certainly can be. But the opportunity to study under some of the gurus at Lehigh at an advanced level in a small class setting...well, it's not something to turn down too hastily.

 

[Archie264]

Oh my, now Jerehmy's and my messages crossed in the mail. But it looks like I called that. I'll now pat myself on the back and go home now that I've gotten my one thing right for the day.

 

[Archie264]

By the way, Jerehmy, I was a physics grad myself and went to grad school to study engineering. It certainly wasn't a waste in my case, nor will it be, I'm sure, in yours.

 

[Jerehmy]

Archie,

I don't think so. A lot more job opportunites for engineers than physics majors. I'm glad I went, I just wish I applied myself more in highschool to get a scholarship and knew what I wanted to be sooner. O well