Liability when you "markup" architect drawings?

[Ben29]

I will call my insurance agent and ask them this question. But I was wondering what your take on it is.

What is your liability when you "redline" architectural house drawings for the architect to then draft? The architect will sign/seal the drawings. You(the engineer) do not sign/seal anything. I am not talking about complicated issues, but simple stuff like "size a joist" for a new-construction townhouse.

 

[driftLimiter]

Do you produce a calculation package? Do you backcheck your marks on the final set of drawings?

Depending on the local law these type of actions by a design professional may be considered okay.

It gets complicated pretty quickly though, can the arch reasonable sign off on work of a structural nature? Are they then the 'design professional in responsible charge?'

Generally I strive to produce my own set of calculations and drawings under my direct supervision. These documents can be marked 'Preliminary' or can be stamped and sealed.

In my area were not supposed to produce work in any way that can't be stamped/signed by us or marked preliminary.

 

[EZBuilding]

I think this all get's muddied by the fact that the Architectural practice allows for architects to perform some levels of Structural design.

This likely varies from municipality to municipality, but I expect that the risk is relatively low - primarily centered on the fact that anyone can get sued by anyone else and the cost/time to defend is a big burden. Having an agreement between you and the architect with very good contract language probably reduces the risk even more.

 

[phamENG]

Your liability is the same regardless of whether you redlined his drawings or if you produced your own. In either case you'd be under contract to the architect, so the owner would have to sue the architect for any contractual disputes to get to you anyway (good reason to work for the architect, not the owner!)

In the end, if you designed it, you own the liability. Sure, there are many roads to get there, but it still gets there.

This is why I no longer do this for architects. They cannot and will not produce a set of structural drawings, so your name is on a 'structural design' that is missing all sorts of structural specs and details.

 

[jerseyshore]

For me this work is similar to performing a site visit to look at, say, 3 beams. You're not there looking at the other 47 beams, just those 3. You provide an evaluation, maybe a repair or replacement or reinforcement. But it's only for those 3 beams.

If I'm redlining a drawing to design 3 beams, that's all I'm looking at because it's all I was hired to look at. Not the other 47 beams on the plans.

In both situations if something happened to be wrong with the other 47 beams you didn't look at, guess what, they're still going to come after you.

I know some people who will sign and seal an architects drawing tho, or say one page in a set. To me that is crazy. I am not signing and sealing anything that I don't produce.

In NJ, engineers and architects have basically the same "power". The only thing (that I am aware of) that an architect cannot do in NJ is observing pile installation.

 

[milkshakelake]

I'd think that if your name is not on the project and you're just redlining a few things for someone else to sign/seal, the liability doesn't go to you. Of course, the legal system is quite complicated and you can get sued for anything, but I think it's a very low level of risk. I agree with having a good contract for things like that to get rid of your responsibility and make it clear that you're advising them, and what they do with it is up to them. It's how pretty much all structural software is contracted.

Personally, I haven't come across issues with this. I marked up a few architectural drawings and sometimes, they didn't follow what I marked and just did their own thing, or they missed some welds and stuff. Maybe I'm lucky, but it never came back to me.

 

[dik]

Yes, and clearly stipulate what you have done...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[WesternJeb]

Just make sure on the markup that it clearly states what was and was not reviewed. It is the same thing with misusing "inspection" when only an "observation" was done.

We started refusing to do this for local architects as we had an "oopsie" where a licensed architect (30+ years experience of both arch. and structural) told the contractor to demo. a load bearing wall and a collapse ensued. No injuries. But after that, we quit trusting architects to do any structural work and didn't want to associate ourselves with anything like "Redline markups" and not knowing what other structural work was going on. Lawyers will go after anyone involved and just wasn't worth the risk to us anymore.