Lithium battery collection for recycling or disposal.

[WKTaylor]

My random thought about this...

My company placed these green trash cans at each of the major buildings at our facility.

I assume disposable batteries or lithium/other recyclable batteries can all be co-mingled. Two thoughts about this noble endeavor...

Aren't lithium batteries prone to spontaneous combustion... or are depleted/uncharged LI batteries very 'safe'??

Also, I can only image this waste can 1/3 full of batteries, weighing ~50+#... no handles... so it had better have a super tough, heavy duty, liner-bag... god help you if the bag tears.

Regards, Wil Taylor
o Trust - But Verify!
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation, Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", HBA forum]
o Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand everything." -Anton Chekhov

 

[IRstuff]

No electrical power, no thermal power; I think they go together.

Unless they empty container once a year, I would think it unlikely that it gets anywhere close to even 1/3 full in, say, one week.

On a separate note, how many lithium batteries are there in the facility that are non-rechargeable?

I have to replace my mouse battery many once a year or so, and everything else that's lithium-anything is rechargeable.

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[JohnRBaker]

Note that here in SoCal, we have hazardous waste disposal facilities where we can take things like household chemicals, empty aerosol cans, old cans of paint, electronic waste and batteries. I make a stop there two or three times a years, mostly with batteries or aerosol cans. Note that none of this material is allowed to be placed in the weekly curbside trash pickup.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
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[hokie66]

The grocery stores here all have battery collection bins near the checkout, no distinction of what kind of battery. Not nearly as large as the trash can shown. I don't know what happens to the batteries, but I empty my jar of spent batteries there.

 

[WKTaylor]

Sounds like my fire-safety concern is likely 'no concern'...

This facility has [3] main buildings and ~4000 assigned and most everyone has company issued portable devices.

AND of course we all have disposable batteries for home use. My wife loves her LED decorative [seasonal] lights. I guess I take the 'dead' batteries and dispose of them there... enmasse... after each 'season'.

Regards, Wil Taylor
o Trust - But Verify!
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation, Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", HBA forum]
o Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand everything." -Anton Chekhov

 

[electricpete]

I think in theory there may be some possible scenarios of concern for certain types of batteries especially lithium. If a battery experiences a spontaneous internal fault, that can lead in release of heat which may induce other nearby batteries to fail and release heat in an escalating fashion. It's not very likely because the internal fault is usually assisted by voltage stress, thermal stress, possibly mechanical stress. The most common scenario is failure during charging when you can have elevated voltage and elevated temperature... which does not apply here.

I'm with you the container seems unreasonably large. Smaller container would make more sense... that would force the issue to empty the container earlier rather than waiting until that huge thing gets full (the fuller it is, the more batteries inside, which not only increases probability of an initiating event among any of those batteries but also increases the consequences of a worst-case event which propagates among many batteries). I wouldn't want this thing sitting in an area that might get hot during the summer.... I'd rather this discarded battery thing be in a climate controlled indoor place (maybe it is). I'd also prefer if the batteries were somewhat discharged prior to placing them in there (at least not fully charged)). It's a metal container which sort of makes me feel good that it may do something to stop the spread to othernearby comsutible material if the batteries do ignite... but then again that metal may present an opportunity to short exposed terminals on certain types of batteries. Come to think of it, I guess there may be a variety of metal on the batteries themselves (depending on the battery type), so ideally tape/wrap any exposed terminals before you toss your batteries in there.

My thoughts anyway. I'm no battery expert, but if I was asked to vouch for the safey of this thing (which doesn't have any obvious restriction on types of batteries written on it), I'd certainly hesitate and err on the side of caution

 

[hokie66]

'On the side of caution' is why air security, at least in some countries, requires carry on spare batteries of any type to be isolated. A bit of electrical tape around the ends satisfies them.

 

[JohnRBaker]

While these aren't Lithium batteries, this is how I pack spare batteries, for cameras accessories like external flash units, flashlights and other stuff, when I travel:

Or if you need to transport a lot of batteries, I like these:

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

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[hokie66]

Very good, John. But we are not all that well organized.

 

[JohnRBaker]

Speaking of the reuse of lithium-based batteries, here's an interesting idea:

EV Batteries Are Perfect For Storing Solar Power

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/11/26/ev-batteries-are-perfect-for-storing-solar-power/

An excerpt from the above item:

Time shifting is one of the keys to the solar power revolution. It allows renewable energy created during one part of the day to be stored in batteries for use during a different part of the day. Traditionally, those batteries have consisted of new battery cells — either NMC or LFP. But one company in California thinks used EV battery packs are a simpler and more cost effective way to store electricity for later use.

The two basic parameters foe EV batteries are energy and power. Energy is the ability to do work. Power is the ability to do work quickly. It takes power to accelerate an electric car from rest. Over time, EV batteries degrade to the point where they can no longer provide the power and range needed by an EV but often have plenty of capacity left for energy storage.

Conventional wisdom suggests that the next step for depleted EV batteries is to recycle them, but B2U, a California start up believes it makes more sense to use them for grid scale storage before sending them off to be recycled. Giving them a second life saves money compared to manufacturing new battery cells and packs for energy storage and takes nothing away from their value to recyclers when that second life is done.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
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[JohnRBaker]

Speaking of batteries with problems, did any of you agree to be part of the 'class action' settlement with Apple over their iPhone batteries? I did, and we were originally told, back in July 2020 when we responded to the settlement notice, that in the end, we'd probably only be getting $25 at best. Well, the settlement check arrived in today's mail, and it was for $92.17 (I read last week that the checks were in the mail and that the payoff was significantly more than the originally estimated $25).

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
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[IRstuff]

Has there suddenly been a change in batteries in airliner luggage? Our luggage got pulled in Manila on the way back to the US because neither alkaline nor nickel cadmium batteries were being allowed in checked luggage, while I had thought it was only lithium ion batteries that were supposedly at issue. We had to transfer shaver, toothbrush, flashlight, etc. into my carry-on, which we didn't have to do last year.

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[JohnRBaker]

As for battery powered personal care items, like razors and electric toothbrushes, when asked I've disclosed that these items were in my checked baggage and no one's ever seemed to have had any problems. Now my MacBook, iPad, iPhone and camera, all of which uses Li-Ion batteries, I've always keep those in my carry-on.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
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[IRstuff]

It seems to be peculiar to Philippine Airlines; the good news is that I was able to put some cans of Coke into my checked luggage that I would have otherwise had to dump. The bad news is that this was the 2nd time on the same trip, and the special Chinese New Year Coke that I had on the first leg had to be emptied, since my checked luggage hadn't gotten flagged on that leg.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[dgallup]

I have my doubts that EV Batteries Are Perfect For Storing Solar Power. The lithium batteries typically used for permanent storage are a different chemistry than EV batteries. EV batteries are a much greater fire hazard so clustering them together isn't the best idea. They also can't be charged rapidly (if at all) in low temperatures. All lithium batteries have low temp charging limits but the EV chemistry is worse. It may work for SoCal but probably not in Canada.

I stuck with good old AGM lead acid batteries when I upgraded the off grid solar system on my island last year. I could not find any lithium battery manufacture that would recommend leaving them unattended for 9 months out of the year. During covid I had to leave my previous batteries unattended for 24 months and they were fine. Lots of other islanders had to replace their batteries.

----------------------------------------

The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.

 

[JohnRBaker]

Another potential breakthrough in battery technology:

Scientists design super-battery made with cheap, readily affordable chemical element, Na — Salt-based cell has surprisingly good energy density and charges in seconds

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/tech...1nUfqA?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=HCTS&cvid=d13daacf743

An excerpt from the above item:

Researchers at the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology (KAIST) have developed a high-performance, hybrid sodium-ion battery that charges rapidly and offers impressive energy density.

This revolutionary prototype uses sodium (Na), a chemical element over 1000 times more abundant and cheaper than lithium (Li), the main component of conventional batteries.

Generally, sodium-ion batteries face constraints such as lower power output, limited storage properties, and extended charging times. The innovative battery design, led by Professor Jeung Ku Kang of the Department of Materials Science and Engineering at KAIST, combats existing limitations of sodium-ion batteries by integrating the anode materials used in traditional batteries with the cathodes used for supercapacitors into a hybrid system. The result reportedly delivers high storage capacity and rapid charge-discharge rates.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[JohnRBaker]

Progress is also being made is an ancillary technology:

A Staggering 19x Energy Jump in Capacitors May Be the Beginning of the End for Batteries

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/staggering-19x-energy-jump-capacitors-155700515.html

An excerpt from the above item:

A battery’s best friend is a capacitor. Powering everything from smartphones to electric vehicles, capacitors store energy from a battery in the form of an electrical charge and enable ultrafast charging and discharging. However, their Achilles’ heel has always been their limited energy storage efficiency.

Now, Washington University in St. Louis researchers have unveiled a groundbreaking capacitor design that looks like it could overcome those energy storage challenges.

In a study published in Science, lead author Sang-Hoon Bae, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering and materials science, demonstrates a novel heterostructure that curbs energy loss, enabling capacitors to store more energy and charge rapidly without sacrificing durability.

While batteries excel in storage capacity, they fall short in speed, unable to charge or discharge rapidly. Capacitors fill this gap, delivering the quick energy bursts that power-intensive devices demand. Some smartphones, for example, contain up to 500 capacitors, and laptops around 800. Just don’t ask the capacitor to store its energy too long.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[GregLocock]

A big problem with capacitors is that their energy storage is directly related to their voltage, so you need a bit of electronics to provide a regulated voltage for most applications. It certainly can be done, I use them (buck boost dc-dc converters) all the time.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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