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Looking for a Relay Test Set 2

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catserveng

Electrical
Sep 22, 2006
1,233
I have gotten to the point in my new business where I could really use a three phase test set. I don't typically do acceptance type protective relay testing, but lately am doing a lot of transducer and controller calibrations, and frankly the rental units I've been getting have not been very reliable.

I have excellent previous experience with Omicron's CMC156, but appears to have been replaced and before I plunk down some $20k USD of my money I'd like to see what other options the group may be aware of in a capability to the 156. The new Omicron offering near what I'm looking for is the CMC353, anone have any experience with that unit?

I've gotten some info from ISA on both the BER/3 and the DRTS, but have never used either and don't know anyone with any experience with them. How do they compare to the hardware wise to the CMC156?

I've tried to get info from SMS multiple times from their website, but no response, anyone have any experience with the two piece three phase test system?

I have also asked for info from both Kingsine (their k68i) and Ponovo (their S40A), neither has a demo in the USA and can't find anyone who knows either one, anyone with experience, good or bad out there?

Ideally I would love to find a good used CMC156, however it seems like no one has any, and that anyone who does have one holds on to it. If anyone knows a possible source I'd appreciate hearing about it.

Any info would be appreciated, thanks.

Mike L.
 
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Programma have a nice range of test gear; it's not cheap but decent kit rarely is. You might want to check vendor support (or lack of it) on your side of the pond.
 
The current amplifiers on the CMC 353 are a different design than the CMC156. A little less accurate, but with a lot more VA and current.

My company is about to purchase a nicely equipped CMC356, as for a few thousand more (than 353), you have 3 more current channels and that is useful in a Xfmr diff relay, or in primary testing applications.

I am admittedly biased towards the Omicron stuff, as I have used/abused it since 1998 with little problem.

You mention it is your new business. I would think about the equipment you need for now, but how it could also expand your offerings. Perhaps the CMC256+, as it is also able to test revenue grade meters in one unit.

Many people swear by the Programma Freja, however it is old and has not been improved in years. Megger now owns Programma and it appears that the R&D $ is going into Megger products.

I've played with the SMC unit. It has nice features, but heavy and a bit big. It does have every conceivable way of connecting to it.

There seems to be a new offering from Manta MTS-5100 you may want to check out as well. Many folks like Manta. I haven't heard anything bad about them. I think Manta gave up on their own

I would really consider a company that has offices in your continent, as getting support half a world away is relegated to email. What about repairs / loaner units?

The last thing I would look closely at is reporting. How easy is it to extract a report? Can the report be edited (comments, nameplate)? I like systems where I can burn a pdf file of the test report to CD and hand it to the customer before I leave, with little effort.
 
This has been quite a venture, most of the offerings from Doble and Megger seem pretty robust, but expensive and bulky. Of course I'm using an old Doble F3C once in a while so anything is easier to lug around than that! The Megger rep mentioned the Programma offerings, but seemd inclined to push the latest Megger unit.

I have a CMC353 with the local controller coming for a demo, for me seems to be the right combination of size, power, and features for most of the things I plan to do.

ISA had pretty nice offering with the DRTS3, but priced higher than the Omicron CMC353. They also offered a BER3, about same price as the Omicron but less features.

I pretty much discounted the Chinese offerings, no USA demo's for what I was looking for, and just couldn't seem to find anyone around here who had used them. Also virtually no technical support I could find.

I did find a nice unit from a company called KoCoS, their ARTES300 and 330 looked close in features to the CMC353, and their current pricing for the more capable ARTES460 seemed pretty attractive, however again I can't find any one I know that has any experience with them, but they have offered to meet me in Seattle where I'll be working the next couple of weeks and let me try out the unit.

Thanks for the feedback, when I decide and end up with a unit I'll post with additional info if anyone is interested.

Mike L.
 
Be aware that the 353 does not have the transducer measuring inputs available anymore. Alternately, you can get the analog i/o inputs. You had mentioned that you are doing transducers and I wanted to point that out.
 
Smallgreek,

Thanks for the info, most of the transducers I do are going into a PLC then on to a load controller or HMI, so as long as I can put a known source into the circuit and see the 4-20mA scale the way it should then the PLC input behave as it's supposed to, then check scaling to the load control or HMI I'm good. Most of the systems used to use three wire two element transducers for kW, like a Crompton, however now days I'm seeing more digital power meters with an analog output used to provide the info, or we're getting the info over a network connection like Modbus.

Initally the Omicron folks weren't very responsive, however I guess since I now appear more serious they are getting more helpful. But they would like to push me to a CMC356.

It certainly looks like there are a better selection of smaller and lighter test sets available in Europe, but it appears many of the companies I looked up had little or no representation in the US.

I'm very interested in the KoCoS ARTES units, but will have to wait and see how it works, just can't seem to find anyone in my area that knows anything about them.

Thanks again, Mike L.
 
We'd purchased a CMC353 recently for testing of our protection relays (and to an extent generator controllers as well), and whilst its a brilliant unit, the automated 4-20mA testing of the 356 would have been handy. We could also use a meter to check the output for the 4-20mA loop, but since the Omicron does the whole lot, its a bit easier to document the test results quickly, than have to work two pieces of kit at once.

For everything else, the CMC353 has been brilliant.
 
Freddy,

Did you get the unit with the software or the CM Controller? If software, what version?

Thanks, Mike L.
 
We purchased the unit with the software. The purchase of a CM controller has been discussed a few times, but we'd missed the cut off for our equipment budget and thus we've not managed to get one.

The software is quite comprehensive, but as always there are caveats. If you've got IT managing your computer equipment you might have difficulty in connecting to the CMC353, as its all done via ethernet. This is great for having the unit on a test bench and your PC on a desk nearby, but not so good when you need to talk to it and the corporate firewall stops you. I think we've got the 2.41 version of software.
 
Hello to all. I am a user of testers PONOVO, L336i model. I tested a SEL, Siemens and Beckwith protection relays. The test set does the neccesary. I think part of the manuals of the equipment is very basic but they are to improve them. The software is constantly updated and with the Basic module can do many tests.
The test set is small and portable.
The manufacturer will help if you need a template for testing specified.
Regards. Jim.
 
Hi Catserveng:
I came across this thread because I am also looking for a relay test set.
Just for my reference, can you tell me the price difference of Omicron and KosCos test sets?

Thanks
 
I made my decision, I went with the Omicron at about $23k, the CMC353 instead of the KoCos ARTES 460. The 460 was more of a competative product to the CMC256 and a very nice set, however a new version just came out, and while the Kocos folks here in the US really bent over backward to try and sell me a set, the US support, training and population for Omicron just gave me more of a comfort level. I believe the KoCos set listed for near $29k, just a bit lower than the Omicron CMC256.

Factored into my decision was size and weight, for what I'll be using the set for most of the time the CMC353 was the best fit, I did like that I can rent expansion units that can be controlled thru the CMC353 (CMA156) if I need more current channels in the future. Also the Omicron user website has a lot of great support and contributions by other users, so as I went thru this entire process of looking, at least for me, the Omicron was the best choice.

Hope that helps, Mike L.
 
I'm also looking for a relay test set. I have a very good experience with relay test set from Omicron and Kocos. catserveng, do you received a quote of CMC356 with advanced protection software ? For reference only, Could you tell me the price range?
@smallgreek, do you know the price range of a CMC356 with advanced protection software?

Thanks
 
Hi Catserveng, CMC353 is good.
Only for others, I have very good experience with Chinese test sets: Ponovo L336i with remote control by advanced software, only 8.8kg and POM2 with local control and remote control by Software with ethernet link.
Obviously the documentation is with only the basic concepts. best Regards.
 
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