Looking to extend my electro-mechanical engineering knowledge 2

[bootlegin]

Hi. My name is Jake and I'm trying to find a way to accumulate the necessary knowledge I need to become an electro-mechanical engineer. I am aware that college is the best route for gaining this knowledge because it would get me a degree to show my credentials, however this isn't viable for me because of my learning disabilities related to learning in lecture-based classroom settings, as well as the required, non engineering related, gen-ed courses.

I have been brushing up on my higher level math skills using khan academy and I already have knowledge of AutoCAD and drafting/3D modeling, but I know this isn't enough. What I need is basically the equivalent of what is taught in the engineering courses in college. I'm thinking text books, but I don't know which ones to buy. I was also thinking of online courses, but don't know where to find any related to electrical/mechanical engineering.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, as it would quite literally change my life. I know for a fact that I can do it. I just need to be able to learn these things in my own way, which, for me, has worked extremely well.

 

[IRstuff]

however this isn't viable for me because of my learning disabilities related to learning in lecture-based classroom settings, as well as the required gen-ed courses that, in my opinion, are just a way for the universities to make money off of people, which wastes years of my life and money that could be used furthering my knowledge in what's actually important.

You can't "further" your knowledge if you don't even have the basics; you seem to be dead-set against college and appear to be rationalizing your disdain.

Do you want to be treated by doctors that didn't go to medical school because they felt it was a waste of time and money and hindered them from "what's actually important?"

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[bootlegin]

You can't "further" your knowledge if you don't even have the basics; you seem to be dead-set against college and appear to be rationalizing your disdain.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. The unnecessary courses I was referring to were things like advanced english, geography, foreign language, etc. Things like math and science, which are the basis for electro-mechanical engineering, are absolutely necessary and I have no problem with that.

I edited the original post to clear up the misunderstanding.

 

[bootlegin]

Do you want to be treated by doctors that didn't go to medical school because they felt it was a waste of time and money and hindered them from "what's actually important?"

No I would not want to be treated by a non accredited doctor, but one who has accumulated the knowledge on their own and then worked their way up from an apprenticeship, I would have no problem with.

That being said, I know for a fact that college is not the only way to make it in this world. Its just a lot harder for most people, or in my case, a lot easier.

 

[Sparweb]

In North America, they're called "homeopaths". There's no scientific basis for most of what they practice, but I'll stop there if you're willing to.

IRStuff's point is that the qualifications are there for a reason. Bridges fall down, rockets blow up, car engines seize, lead in paint is toxic. The qualifications are necessary not only to prove that you know something about the job, but they can also prove that you are competent in the eyes of your peers AND you are willing to take responsibility for your failures. In a world where there are already too many charlatans, in every walk of life, our wise ancestors figured out that there has to be a way to sort the good from the bad.

You're welcome to exercise your technical abilities. Your focus on "become an engineer" isn't well targeted. What if you could do much better in a shop or a lab as a technician? (who are often well paid and very smart people so get off your high horse). What other jobs do you do well? You are much more likely to succeed if you chose a profession in line with what you can actually achieve.

 

[IRstuff]

No I would not want to be treated by a non accredited doctor, but one who has accumulated the knowledge on their own and then worked their way up from an apprenticeship, I would have no problem with.

So, you'd have no problem with "engineering by anecdotes"? That's what cause BOTH Challenger and Columbia shuttle disasters; "well, we flew it 50 times without any problems." You can't "accumulate" required knowledge on your own because you don't know what you don't know, and just cranking on equations without understanding them is just plain dangerous, because you won't know WHY the equation is the way it is, and you won't know WHY or WHERE and equation is applicable or not applicable.

By your argument, you'd have no problem solely depending on a nurse practitioner as your only medical practitioner, even though an NP has only two years of actual medical doctor education and ZERO residency training.

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[CWB1]

The niche you're looking for is called mechatronics. Schools generally offer it as a focus/minor/specialization with either a mechanical (more common) or electrical engineering degree. Most every U's various engineering depts websites should list the required coursework and textbooks for at least the first two years bc they are pretty rigidly defined. The later two years are typically where students follow their interests through various engineering and trade electives, so you may need to refer to the U's master course catalog for info on them.

If you're interested in mechatronics but not college, I would strongly suggest pursuing a trades apprenticeship through IBEW, IUEC, or similar union as a lineman/substation, elevator tech, industrial maintenance, etc. Its a great, no-cost path to a top income in a similar field.

JMO but hoping to land an engineering position without an engineering degree today is rather unrealistic for several reasons. First and foremost is the fact that there's no shortage of degree-holders on the market, IIRC only ~40% actually go into engineering after graduation. Secondly, a degree proves to employers that you have a basic level of self-discipline/motivation toward learning/growth as well as a basic level of knowledge. Training junior engineers is VERY expensive for employers and a VERY intense/busy/stressful few years for junior engineers, so many employers simply arent interested in hiring without a degree. Inversely, the only engineering office you'd likely be hired into is one where you wouldn't receive much training, so you'd never really develop into a good (read: highly-paid) engineer. Thirdly, engineers are often pulled into sales, legal, or other matters where credentials are critical to establishing your competence to outside groups. A non-degreed engineer would be a huge liability in front of a jury, regulatory agency, or even many customers.

FWIW, engineering degrees really dont have much fluff in them today and to be successful you really do need to be good at much more than design. Typically the only "arts" courses engineering students are required to take is engineering technical report writing and oral communication/technical presentation, a course or two in the history of science and technology, and a foreign language. The only one of those I'd deem unnecessary would be the foreign language tho I second-guess that every project requiring a translator be hired. Reporting writing and presentation skills OTOH are critical and a huge part of engineering, I'd rank them above higher math and even a few engineering core-classes.

Good luck regardless.

 

[bootlegin]

The niche you're looking for is called mechatronics. Schools generally offer it as a focus/minor/specialization with either a mechanical (more common) or electrical engineering degree. Most every U's various engineering depts websites should list the required coursework and textbooks for at least the first two years bc they are pretty rigidly defined. The later two years are typically where students follow their interests through various engineering and trade electives, so you may need to refer to the U's master course catalog for info on them.

If you're interested in mechatronics but not college, I would strongly suggest pursuing a trades apprenticeship through IBEW, IUEC, or similar union as a lineman/substation, elevator tech, industrial maintenance, etc. Its a great, no-cost path to a top income in a similar field.

JMO but hoping to land an engineering position without an engineering degree today is rather unrealistic for several reasons. First and foremost is the fact that there's no shortage of degree-holders on the market, IIRC only ~40% actually go into engineering after graduation. Secondly, a degree proves to employers that you have a basic level of self-discipline/motivation toward learning/growth as well as a basic level of knowledge. Training junior engineers is VERY expensive for employers and a VERY intense/busy/stressful few years for junior engineers, so many employers simply arent interested in hiring without a degree. Inversely, the only engineering office you'd likely be hired into is one where you wouldn't receive much training, so you'd never really develop into a good (read: highly-paid) engineer. Thirdly, engineers are often pulled into sales, legal, or other matters where credentials are critical to establishing your competence to outside groups. A non-degreed engineer would be a huge liability in front of a jury, regulatory agency, or even many customers.

FWIW, engineering degrees really dont have much fluff in them today and to be successful you really do need to be good at much more than design. Typically the only "arts" courses engineering students are required to take is engineering technical report writing and oral communication/technical presentation, a course or two in the history of science and technology, and a foreign language. The only one of those I'd deem unnecessary would be the foreign language tho I second-guess that every project requiring a translator be hired. Reporting writing and presentation skills OTOH are critical and a huge part of engineering, I'd rank them above higher math and even a few engineering core-classes.

You're right. Thank you for the comprehensive reply. Perhaps a trades apprenticeship would be better for me. I'll put some thought into it. I'll also look into mechatronics. Thanks again.

 

[IRstuff]

At least, for me, they never had much "fluff;" I had one humanities class per quarter, so 1/7th of my credits were non-engineering and that was 43 years ago.

The issue might be more that some of the engineering and math weren't absolutely essential, but all of them laid some groundwork for any possible turns in my career, and there were at least a few. Even quantum mechanics, which didn't reappear in my life until 4 years before I retired.

To one of CWB1's other points, you need to decide whether you can be even remotely certain that you want to be so specialized in something that you wind up having to redo everything later on in your career. I thought I was going to do ONE THING when I graduated, but that changed only 8 years after graduation, and changed again 10 years later. Not having the fundamentals of engineering, math, and physics would have made those later changes in my career substantially more difficult.

There are people that can do ONE THING for their entire careers and be fulfilled and there are those that don't. Having a solid college education allows you the flexibility to change subdisciplines and employers having the confidence that you can make those changes.

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[bootlegin]

To everyone who responded in this thread, I'm sorry if I came off as high and mighty. That was not at all my intention. I'm just a scared individual who has had nothing but bad experiences in school, even in college when I tried for IT. I did really well in vocational school for structural welding and even got my cert. That's why I thought that something was wrong with college. So I hope you all can forgive me.

That being said, I found out that there are bachelor's majors in electrical engineering with a heavy focus on mechatronics that I can get purely online, which sounds like a really good compromise for me since I can review the lectures whenever I need to rather than relying solely on what I can capture in my notes at in person lectures.

To one of CWB1's other points, you need to decide whether you can be even remotely certain that you want to be so specialized in something that you wind up having to redo everything later on in your career.

You're absolutely right about that. I fully intend to obtain all of the fundamentals of engineering before moving on to a specialized subdiscipline.

 

[IRstuff]

A large number of "colleges" are for-profit entities, and while we don't like to think about it, they don't all have educating students as their primary objective. I would recommend that you stay with accredited and well-known colleges and universities, regardless, as pretty much anyone can throw together a bunch of videos and "course materials."

And while I understand your disdain of non-engineering courses, I think you'll find that business, history, writing, oral presentations, etc., will all benefit you later on in your career. Understanding how businesses work and make profits is obviously important, and much of history is replete with human motivations and causes of economic downturns/upturns. Writing is an essential skill for all engineers; being able to document your ideas or designs in a meaningful and impactful way is a key skill to successfully moving up in the ranks. Being able to talk to a group of people and present your position confidently is nearly as important as being a good engineer in the first place.

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[CWB1]

I would recommend that you stay with accredited and well-known colleges and universities

Great point and agreed with one...

***Warning & rant - ABET is the recognized accrediting organization for STEM degrees including engineering stateside, link to their accredited school search below. Many of the diploma mills have confused the masses regarding accreditation in recent years by pointing to institutional rather than degree/program accreditations. An institutional accreditation is a review/certification of the school's record-keeping, recruiting, financial, and other non-educational/non-curriculum processes, usually by a group of other schools. Its purpose is to safeguard against discriminatory (race/gender/etc) practices, financial fraud, and other business-y misdeeds/crimes, and is required for a school to receive govt aide/grants. A degree/program accreditation OTOH is a review/certification of a specific degree's curriculum by an independent professional organization. Its purpose is to ensure students receive a good education. The diploma mills usually have institutional but not degree accreditations thus can claim to be "accredited" without offering an accredited degree, which is what employers and govt actually care about. That warning aside, there are engineering degrees offered entirely online with degree/program accreditation through ABET. Many state schools offer them, just be suspicious if the school has a tv commercial instead of a brick&mortar campus.

[link ]

https://amspub.abet.org/aps/name-search?searchType=institution

[/url]

 

[bootlegin]

The institution I had hoped to attend is called ECPI. They are for-profit, but I know they have an ABET accreditation and they seem to be genuine about teaching. I've also looked online to see what others have to say about the institution and they all seem to say that it's legitimate.

Also their degree programs are accelerated meaning courses are compressed into 5 weeks with 2 courses per term, which means getting a degree faster. I could get an associates in 1.5 years or a bachelors in 2.5 years. However, this also means a lot more learning crammed into a smaller span of time.

 

[SWComposites]

CAREFUL, all of the listed degrees are "Engineering Technology" degrees, not real Bachelor of Science Engineering degrees. ET degrees will not be viewed positively by most employers looking to fill engineering jobs; ET degreed persons will likely be considered for technician type jobs.

 

[IRstuff]

In as little as 2.5 years, through our year-round schedule, you could earn a Bachelor of Science Degree in Electronics Engineering Technology with a concentration in Mechatronics.

As I stated earlier, humanities only consumed about 1/7th of my course load, so 2.5 years is running thin and should be more like 3.4 years. As SWComposites indicates, a BS ET is not considered by most to be a "true" engineering degree, since the "Technology" label suggests that you get more survey-level classes than the normal math-intensive, theory-intensive, engineering courses.

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[IRstuff]

Note that there are ABET-accredited, top-notch, universities with free course materials, such as MIT Open CourseWare

https://ocw.mit.edu/

It might be worthwhile taking a minute, and investigating whether your chosen specialty is really what you want to do, vs. something else.

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[bootlegin]

only ~40% actually go into engineering after graduation

Does this mean I should be more focused on getting work as a technician rather than an engineer? If so, would an associates in engineering technology be the best option? Also does the low number mean that there is a shortage of engineering jobs?

My main concern is getting a hands-on, not mundane, high paying job in the mechanical or electrical field, whether it be as an engineer, technician, or something else. I want to be able to employ my mechanical/electrical, problem solving, and creativity skills in the workplace while also making a lot of money so I can buy materials to fuel my hobbies. This way, I can feel fulfilled both at home and at work.

 

[bootlegin]

MIT Open CourseWare

https://ocw.mit.edu/

Thanks a ton for this wealth of knowledge. I will use it wisely to figure out what I should really be pursuing.

 

[SWComposites]

First try doing a search on LinkedIn for how many people have ECPI Mechatronics degrees and what jobs they have; if you don't find any, then red flag! if you find some, look at the companies they work for, and the roles they are in.

Engineering degrees set people up for all sorts of career paths - engineering, sales, management, medical, etc. The job prospects vary widely by engineering specialty, location and business cycles.

An engineering technology degree and technician role can be rewarding for some people, but it will limit one's job opportunities and advancement prospects. And you won't be able to get into most engineering Master's degree programs with an ET degree.

Define "high-paying"? and what location? "high paying" to some people is $75k and others it is $500k. And $75k in Iowa is a lot better than $75k in CA.

 

[IRstuff]

Does this mean I should be more focused on getting work as a technician rather than an engineer?

Not necessarily; it's not clear why they leave. Was it because they were pressured into pursuing engineering when they were more interested in something else? Did they have a bad experience?

That might be the case for you, hence, you need to figure out your desires and wants. Are you more interested in seeing the finished product working, or are you interested in getting it work in the first place or are you interested in designing things? And how likely is that to change?

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