Looking to extend my electro-mechanical engineering knowledge 2

[bootlegin]

Hi. My name is Jake and I'm trying to find a way to accumulate the necessary knowledge I need to become an electro-mechanical engineer. I am aware that college is the best route for gaining this knowledge because it would get me a degree to show my credentials, however this isn't viable for me because of my learning disabilities related to learning in lecture-based classroom settings, as well as the required, non engineering related, gen-ed courses.

I have been brushing up on my higher level math skills using khan academy and I already have knowledge of AutoCAD and drafting/3D modeling, but I know this isn't enough. What I need is basically the equivalent of what is taught in the engineering courses in college. I'm thinking text books, but I don't know which ones to buy. I was also thinking of online courses, but don't know where to find any related to electrical/mechanical engineering.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, as it would quite literally change my life. I know for a fact that I can do it. I just need to be able to learn these things in my own way, which, for me, has worked extremely well.

 

[IRstuff]

I want to be able to employ my mechanical/electrical, problem solving, and creativity skills in the workplace

In the engineering field, per se, that's kind of a niche area, mostly in prototype development, since once something gets to the production line, creativity is no longer required.

Alternately, you might want to look at field-service, i.e., on-site repair.

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[IRstuff]

While the employment percentage of engineers has been bandied about as a serious problem, we should note that all disciplines suffer similar issues, and some are worse than others. That only makes sense; no everyone stays the course for their entire lifetimes, things and people change over time.

https://www.resumebuilder.com/one-third-of-recent-college-grads-are-working-at-jobs-that-dont-require-a-college-education/#:~:text=Employment%20in%20field%20of%20study%20varies%20by%20major&text=Conversely%2C%20only%2038%25%20of%20graduates,degrees%20related%20to%20social%20sciences.[/URL]]link

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[bootlegin]

Define "high-paying"? and what location? "high paying" to some people is $75k and others it is $500k. And $75k in Iowa is a lot better than $75k in CA.

For me, even $60k a year would be sufficient, but $100k+ would definitely be nice. Also, I live in PA.

In the engineering field, per se, that's kind of a niche area, mostly in prototype development

I guess what I've always seen myself being, even from childhood, is an inventor, but I'm not sure if that's even a legitimate profession. I thought an engineer was basically someone that develops new things, but it's starting to look like that's not the case. Is prototype development a profession? If so, what kind of degree would I need to pursue that?

 

[IRstuff]

I thought an engineer was basically someone that develops new things, but it's starting to look like that's not the case.

Not sure where you got that idea; I've certainly not claimed that. But you need to realistic; a product design from start to finish is often on the order of a couple of years to more than that. And, the process is not a continual barrage of design work. Once you complete a preliminary design and it gets accepted, you move on to detailed design, integration and test, and finalization/productization for production.

Some people have this mythical viewpoint that invention is quick and constant, but that's totally unrealistic. Thomas Edison, no slouch himself, spent over a year, just to get a light bulb filament that worked to requirements. Lilienthal invented the junction field effect transistor in 1930, but the production process required to actually make such a transistor didn't exist until the early 1960s.

Is prototype development a profession? If so, what kind of degree would I need to pursue that?

It is, sort of; it would mostly be in some sort of research and development group, lab, or facility, but such jobs are highly sought after, and there will be stiff competition. Obviously, car companies develop new cars/models every year, but you'll find that it's mostly cosmetic or cost-related changes, rather than brand new designs. That's true of most products that already exist.

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[bootlegin]

Not sure where you got that idea; I've certainly not claimed that.

Apologies. I must have misunderstood or misread somewhere. I have ADHD and Autism, so sometimes I suck at interpreting what people say.

a product design from start to finish is often on the order of a couple of years to more than that. And, the process is not a continual barrage of design work. Once you complete a preliminary design and it gets accepted, you move on to detailed design, integration and test, and finalization/productization for production.

This much I'm already aware of. I know designing something new is incredibly time consuming if it's being designed properly with all of the real world variables in mind. I promise I don't have this notion that things are just thought up and then quickly slapped together. I designed things in fusion360 for a while before my 3D printer broke down, so I know it takes time and dedication to perfect a product. I mean, for me, it was mostly trial and error since I don't have the knowledge to do all of the advanced calculations or the simulation software to do fluidic, aero, structural, etc simulations. Though, I wish I did because it would make my hobbies so more interesting and efficient.

It is, sort of; it would mostly be in some sort of research and development group, lab, or facility

I looked up "prototyping" on Indeed and found 6 in my area that are all based around product development and require engineering degrees either bachelors or masters.

 

[IRstuff]

I think you'll find that such is life; while prototyping isn't a lightspeed sort of process, most companies wouldn't want you to be just dinking around trying to figure out things using "guess and try" as opposed to solid physics and engineering analysis, hence the minimum of BS degree requirements.

I think that you'll also find that it's often analysis of existing designs that gets you to a new design point, which again requires a solid BS background.


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[bootlegin]

I think you'll find that such is life; while prototyping isn't a lightspeed sort of process, most companies wouldn't want you to be just dinking around trying to figure out things using "guess and try" as opposed to solid physics and engineering analysis, hence the minimum of BS degree requirements.

I think that you'll also find that it's often analysis of existing designs that gets you to a new design point, which again requires a solid BS background.

I whole heartedly agree. This is why I want the knowledge of an engineer so badly. If I could just find a proper online bachelor's degree program, I believe I could make it.

I looked into several chapters from the engineering courses at MIT Open Courseware and the math mostly looks like what is already covered in general mathematics except expanded to fit real world variables such as inertia, friction, gravitational pull, etc. The notations look like they can get pretty confusing since there are so many of them and, since its been 8 years, I've forgotten a few advanced things like the big "S" thing with variables on the top and bottom of it (I forgot what its called) and imaginary numbers, but that's what brushing up is for.

I think my absolute biggest hurdle will be terminology because I have a very hard time memorizing words and definitions. I always did terrible on tests that required me to define a word, especially one with a long definition.

 

[ChorasDen]

I agree with the vast majority of what IR has said so far in this thread, only thing I might counter is that not all of these jobs are necessarily extremely highly sought after, nor do they always require a wealth of experience, as long as you are willing to accept a junior role and work your way up in a company and/or industry (and face it, if you wish to do design and prototyping, this is pretty much the only way to achieve that end).

I work within and alongside the R&D group of a large, multinational company that provides structural building materials for the building industry (I'm being intentionally vague here on purpose). I'll try and summarize my thoughts regarding this concept of prototyping and 'inventing' below:

1) First, as IR has alluded to, 'inventing' something new is going to be extremely rare, most everything is an iterative process, defined by taking something that already works and making it more efficient to manufacture and/or sell.

2) Let's talk about degree requirements & education, you will need to have a baseline understand of how the physical world works and interacts, that means not only understand applied mathematics, but also have a good basis in both physics, chemistry, and depending on your field of interest, biology as well (really just applied chemistry). You get the absolute bare basics of understanding once you've received a Bachelors of Science with an Engineering Degree (Civil, Mechanical, Chemical/Environmental, etc). A BS in engineering is an absolute bare minimum, and it does not give you very much in the ways of skills to succeed, those will begin to be acquired once you actually enter the workforce. I would say that an Engineering Technology degree does not meet this requirement, and I would not recommend a Technology degree if you wish to enter R&D, unless you are most interested in technician work.

3) Is there a saleable approach for your new idea or 'invention'? Is there demand for such a thing out in the field (i.e. is this something you can sell?). If you don't have a market or customer base, you're going to have a hard time getting justification to pursue your idea. While this is a simple explanation, it needs to be kept in mind.

4) Next you need to have a basis of understanding of: is my idea buildable? (this will rely on your understanding of math, physics, chemistry, etc). Can my idea be created in an R&D setting?

5) After some very basic review to verify your idea, next step is finding time to devote to your idea. Generally speaking, you aren't going to be in a position to simply be hanging out at work and thinking up ideas to work on. So this part will be difficult. You will need funding, you will need equipment and technician help, you will need time to develop.
5a) This is where the points made above in this thread apply. Believe it or not, the engineering department for just about any company isn't swimming in cash. In fact, funding in general is extremely tight. So you will need to build a proposal justifying why time and money should be spent on your 'invention', and that will need to be presented to leadership, or whomever holds the purse strings for the company you work for. This is where your alternate humanities and technical writing classes would be handy, in that they give you some ideas how to write, approach, and talk to non-technical individuals for funding, etc.

6) By some miracle, you've come up with a good idea, you have a customer base, and you got funding from management to run a pilot/prototype line. Does your new 'invention' fit onto existing infrastructure, or do you need new equipment to manufacture? If you need to purchase new equipment, that may require multiple millions of dollars, years of building, and production area to acquire, which could be difficult to justify to management, it's always better to make something that fits within existing assets the company you work for owns.
6a) Now what? You need to prototype and troubleshoot production of the product. Things never work out perfectly, and you need to find out the product design errors that reduce yield, create unsafe maintenance or manufacturing conditions, reduce costs to manufacture, etc. Reducing costs is one of the most important parts, because if the product costs more to produce and ship than the market will bear, it's going to be dead in the water.

7) Several years later, these issues have been resolved. Now you need to address whatever regulatory hurdles that stand in the way of your product entering market. Ideally these are thought through during prototype stages, but often times each jurisdiction and/or state is unique. California is the wealthiest state in the US, and has some fierce regulatory hurdles that need addressed before entering that market. You will always want to sell your product in California, as the amount of customers and money is very high, but can you get over the hurdles required to enter that market?

8) Everything discussed above may take 5-10 years to get to completion, will require significant time and attention paid to non-technical personal. How do you communicate with these individuals? How do you get them to understand the importance or usefulness of your idea? How do you get them to provide you funding?

This is a very basic view of the process, it's not all encompassing, and it's not intended to dissuade you, just to help you realize that your idealized view of this concept may not be totally grounded in reality. If this all acceptable to you, then I would suggest spending more time talking to a college and getting a feel for their programs and how you may enter such programs (Verify the individual program is ABET accredited. Just because the college has some programs ABET accredited, doesn't necessarily mean all their programs are).

 

[bootlegin]

Perhaps technician work would be more my style since this would involve far more hands on work and far less economic/mass-production planning or presenting to higher ups, none of which I am thrilled about. I'm a hands on guy that likes to build things, specifically machinery. Engineering sounds like it encompasses the whole design process rather than simply just the design and assembly. I had originally thought that all of the economics, presenting, production planning, etc would be divided into a team of individuals, each having their own specific job with the engineers being the designers.


All of the points you made sound completely reasonable, but I don't know if I can handle 10 years of planning for mass production. I'd prefer to keep my manufacturing environment small, which is probably why I should stick to designing and manufacturing things at home in a more casual sense. That way I won't be constantly overwhelmed with having to figure out how to make my designs a cheaply as possible, not that I'd really be mass producing my designs anyways. I really don't like designing things as cheaply as possible because it makes things less durable and more prone to failure. That said, I do understand why large corporations have to cut as many costs as possible when it comes to manufacturing a product, I just don't like it.

 

[ChorasDen]

Depending on the product, it can indeed take considerable time to go from concept stage to 'out in the field'. Generally speaking, depending on your employers structure, others in your company will be focused on promoting sales, dealing with regulation, product scheduling, etc. However, you will still need to be aware and mindful of those things. Ultimately, your position at any company is to bring money to that company. You should be providing more worth to the company than it costs to maintain you (your paycheck plus any benefits, including medical, 401k, vacation, etc). Otherwise, the company will not see a benefit to keeping you. How do you do that? by providing technical experience to improve/reduce production costs, or resolving development issues during production, or even providing necessary technical expertise to help resolve regulatory issues.

Perhaps technician work would be more my style

Technicians really are the bread and butter of a lot of companies/industries. They are highly skilled, are extremely knowledge about testing equipment and data collection methods and fabrication, often much more so than the engineers who right the test plans that the technicians follow. I would agree that technician may at least be something you spend a bit more time looking into, and see if it checks the boxes of what you are interested in doing.

 

[bootlegin]

As long as I can have a job that is hands on, involves assembly, testing, and/or problem solving, and pays well, I don't really need to be the bread and butter. I can just leave all of the designing to my hobbies at home.

 

[bootlegin]

Thanks everyone for steering me in the right direction. Without your help, I probably would have blindly tried to become an engineer, which probably wouldn't have ended well for me. Now that I know there are better paths I can take that fit my style better, I'm going to heavily research those possibilities.

 

[Sparweb]

Very glad we could help. It's why we enjoy being here.

I would add that you're not the only one. Lots of people are told to enter engineering and shown only one doorway. If they don't get in, they are told the door is shut.
There are so many ways to enter technical professional fields and (IMO) it's a crime that young people are usually guided to only certain directions.
I wish you the best of luck!

 

[IRstuff]

Technicians really are the bread and butter of a lot of companies/industries.

However, like many other "support" functions, some companies have been shedding technician level jobs, on the assumption that prototype integration and test can be more than adequately served by engineers, and you don't have to pay for technicians while the engineers are busy designing and there's nothing in the queue.

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[SWComposites]

https://www.npr.org/2023/02/14/1155...ollege-degree-thousands-of-them-are-sitting-e

 

[bootlegin]

https://www.npr.org/2023/02/14/1155...ollege-degree-thousands-of-them-are-sitting-e

Quote from the article: "People are going to college without a plan, without a career in mind, because the mindset in high school is just, 'Go to college."

I actually did notice this at the end of my high school years. The faculty pushed so hard for the students to get degrees because they said that it's the only real way to get far in life. But now I'm reading an article that's saying that there are too many degree holders and not enough tradesmen! That's crazy!

I will say that I did get a cert in structural welding, but later found out that there aren't many welding jobs in my area, which would mean I would need to join a union and travel all over the country for work. Unfortunately though, I can't do that. So perhaps I should get an associates in mechanical engineering technology, or perhaps mechatronics, which is something I can get online. If I get one, I think that should set the ground work for getting a job as a maintenance technician or something similar. I almost got hired as a maintenance technician without a degree, but someone with higher qualifications grabbed it from under me at the last second. That was actually the moment I realized that I need accreditation. Happened about a month ago.

 

[Sparweb]

I will say that I did get a cert in structural welding, but later found out that there aren't many welding jobs in my area,

You shoulda moved to Fort McMurray.

 

[IRstuff]

I actually did notice this at the end of my high school years. The faculty pushed so hard for the students to get degrees because they said that it's the only real way to get far in life. But now I'm reading an article that's saying that there are too many degree holders and not enough tradesmen! That's crazy!

Do bear in mind that a decent starting salary along with good salary growth is important vis-a-vis being able to own a home, etc., not to mention being able to save for retirement. Regardless, you should already be saving for retirement.

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[bootlegin]

Yea none of my previous jobs really had any kind of transferrable retirement benefits. I do absolutely plan on saving for retirement though. I actually did team up with a friend of mine and we bought a cheap-ish house together about half a year ago. At the time, I thought I would have been able to get a job relatively quickly since I have a lot of skills as well as a cert, but its been 6 months and so far still I'm not hired. As a result, bills and taxes have been kicking my ass pretty bad. I'm telling you right now that once I finally do get work, I'll be the happiest man alive.