LVL to built up column

[JStructsteel]

3 ply LVL to a 2x4 built up column. No uplift. Do you add a column cap connector, or just allow toe nails. beam has side framing rafters, so not any lateral movement to worry about.

 

[driftLimiter]

Just put a cap. Whats the motivation to skimp here?

 

[JStructsteel]

I guess finding a cap that's dimensional the same. 3 ply LVL is 5.25" and 2x column is 4.5" or 6"

 

[RPGs]

The link below has Simpson Strongtie Post-to-beam selector web app. I use it all the time.

https://app.strongtie.com/pbs?_ga=2.79153364.1724139074.1667416303-339718617.1620384304

 

[XR250]

I never use a cap if the beam has flush members attached to it.
Toenails should be fine

 

[Celt83]

Post in a wall and no uplift or uplift can be handled by a hurricane style tie = No Cap
Post in a wall and significant uplift = Post Cap
Isolated Post = Post Cap

 

[1.392DL]

I typically use 5% of the gravity load as a rule of thumb for connections like this. It is similar to the load path requirements of ASCE 7 chapter 1.

 

[manstrom]

toenails.

any cap will have depth and will conflict with drywall. plus they won't remember to put the cap on until later.

 

[dhengr]

Jstructsteel:
Why not make your 2x4 built-up column whatever it needs to be in terms of number of 2x’s, with a note that each 2x be cut true and square, and to length, so that they are all bearing at the beam. Then place this col. at the end of the built-up beam, and add a king stud which extends up to the top of the beam. This king stud can be end nailed to the beam elements and also nailed to your stud pack. This would help tie everything together at each end of the beam, with extra toenailing and hardware as req’d.

 

[JStructsteel]

Thanks all. I used the Simpson selector app and found a appropriate cap.

 

[driftLimiter]

You can also shim those caps out pretty easily. And the AC caps I believe go on in two pieces so beam width are relatively unconstrainted.

 

[XR250]

I'm curious about those who are suggesting a cap.
What is the demand that requires this?

 

[jayrod12]

Yeah, I'm not a cap guy unless there's a demand for it. For strictly a gravity connection with flush framed joists, where's it going to go? A couple of screws/nails to provide lateral stability to the column, of which the demand would be quite low given that you're able to get it to work with 2x4 lumber.

 

[Aesur]

@XR250, sometimes the cap provides better bearing capacities for Fc'perp as it's less than parallel bearing. There are numerous ways to do this connection however, and it really depends on the loading, ie uplift loading either needs a cap or strap/h clip mechanism.

 

[driftLimiter]

Im with Aesur here. I like the fact that the cap has nails in shear that aren't toenailed.

 

[XR250]

I like that I will continue to get work from the contractor if I don't specify a cap.

 

[JStructsteel]

XR250, I guess its me thinking I need a cap. I have 16' beam on a built up column, supporting the second floor. No contractor is pressuring me to not have a connector (I have never had anyone complain about a connector).

In the end, I am comfortable with the additional 20$ they will have to spend for the cap each end. If that causes rift between me and a contractor, hopefully I dont have to work with them agian.

 

[jayrod12]

Must be nice to have contractors not complain about caps and connectors. Where I practice, and I get the feeling XR has the same experience, there's nothing but claims of overkill if you specify a cap where not absolutely necessary. Because we're non-seismic, everyone is used to just being able to bang things together with a nail gun. They even complain about flush mount connectors "Why won't nails into the end grain do it?". But where necessary, I stand my ground.

 

[driftLimiter]

Running some numbers on ASCE 7-16 12.1.4

A single 16d common toenail for G=0.5, Z' = (1.6)(117) = 187 #/nail

Sect. 12.1.4 requires 5% of the reaction (D+L) lateral connection from supporting member to beam.

Taking the allowable lateral strength of (1) toenail into that equation from 12.1.4 -> 187/0.05 = 3.74 kip / nail allowable reaction (D+L)

So to me its reasonable that 2 - 4 toenails at this connection would be sufficient for most cases.

For reference the AC4 Cap has a lateral capacity of 1,610# or about (9) toenails. But the equivalent max supported (D+L) reaction is 32 kip. Surely more than most people need in most cases.

After looking it a bit more, I can see how one would want to use Toenails in situations where lateral stability is satisfied, and there is no uplift. The cap has 16 nails and potentially you could get away with (2) toenails.

 

[RPGs]

Most Simpson products have a safety factor of 3 or more, which is nice. I also really enjoy how relatively idiot-proof most of their connectors are; it's either there with all the fastener holes filled, or it's not. I don't need a ladder to get up close to look for proper toe nails, etc.

I'll never forget my first time doing a framing inspection for a single family home that I personally designed and being shocked at how massive and weighty the Simpson ECCQ-SDS cap really is. It was required for a number of roof structural elements, but certainly not all of the connections I called it out for. After seeing it for the first time, I became much more conscious of when it was--or wasn't--required in the effort to go for something smaller, or nothing at all.

I'll also never forget the sarcastic comments from the carpenters on site when I walked in: "Heads up, Mr. Simpson is here." and the inevitable "So, how much stock do you have in Simpson?" All in good fun.