Maintenance vs. Operations 5

[PennStateIE]

Anyone here ever have to deal with a feuding maintenance group vs. operations group? Each side blames each other for downtime and I'm stuck in the middle trying to reduce the downtime.

Also on a side note, what do people typically consider "allowable" downtime for product changeover, daily PM, etc? I think we allow too much downtime (1 hr) per shift.

 

[BillPSU]

Each situation is different based on the process, tooling, equipment and condition of the equipment. You will have to dig into what is supposed to occur in PM, product changeover and breakdowns. Then document what actually occurs. Get to know the operators they can give you a great deal of information about machine conditions and current problems. In the end operations and maintenance will have to become team players in both maintaining the equipment and production levels. SPC could be a tool for you and operations to monitor quality and possibly machine conditions. This is a big task. Take small bites but be tenacious and don't allow anybody to sidetrack you from your goal unless your boss says so.

Good Luck,
Bill

 

[PennStateIE]

Thanks. I've already started to dig. I've asked the operators and the maintenance group separately...and of course it's still the other one's fault. I've started to ask what is being done and who is doing it and that's where I've hit a road-block...the facility manager wants me to figure it out and tell them what's wrong with the machines, not that the people are poorly trained or something like that.

 

[BillPSU]

Continue your digging. What are the machines supposed to be doing ie number of parts per hour, production rate, or tolerances. New equipment is one of the choices to improving operations however getting the most out of your current equipment should be your current goal. Document what is happening, facts will reduce finger pointing and the root cause of the problem will eventually reach the surface. Look for waste. Machine being down due to lack of a operator. PM supplies not being available. Lack of repetitive maintenance items causing delays. Did the operator do something or didn't do something which caused downtime? Get the emotions out of the decision process.

 

[griffengm]

PennStateIE,
Sounds to me like an opportunity to do some applied brainstorming to begin. I would have the supervisor for each area select one knowledgable worker and sit down with them together and start listing possible causes with the first rule being that this is not a fault finding session but an effort to find causes. After the first few cross- discipline causes these folks will work into the area that they know best to find possibilities. As BillPSU says, stick with it, you will get there.
The amazing result to me about these sessions is that these guys will go back to their respective areas and start doing something about the causes on their own initiative. I think it is something like because they start to see themselves empowered, they are.

Griffy

 

[aamoroso]

Start by looking for common breakdown causes. Seems like management needs to decide if maintenance dept is better off working re-active or pro-active and then commit to it. You can dig all you want and you will see that if maintenance does not have a say in preventive measures then they will always have to work in corrective mode. Some places function just fine to work correctively but it sounds like maintenance needs to create a preventive maintenance plan for each piece of equipment and train operators what parts of that they need to comply with. Both sides have to realise life will be easier if they work together in solving it. If training isn't the best answer then procedures would be the next thing necessary. It is important that written procedure be created to document responsibility and authority.

Fill what's empty. Empty what's full. And scratch where it itches.

 

[JTreglio]

I think if you take a negative approach all you're going to get is finger pointing. Take a positive approach. Ask everyone what can be done to improve operations and increase up-time. Maybe offer some reward for the best suggestions.

Jim Treglio
Molecular Metallurgy, Inc.

 

[tygerdawg]

Been there, done that. You're at too low of a level on the corporate totem pole to make a cultural change in a company with a dysfunctional culture. I've seen these type of problems caused by poor management who allow this non-teamwork condition to exist in the first place.

Imagine a football team where the offense is always blaming the defense and vice-versa for the team's consistent losing record. You can't drive a car if there's friction in the bearings.

I agree with JTreglio, Ignore the blame storming, collect the data, and let the data speak for itself (inefficiencies, lack of authority/delegations/freedom to act, insufficient funding, poor equipment, insufficient personnel, unqualified personnel, poor incoming quality parts, any of a thousand reasons. This may be an opportunity to "learn up" on some Six Sigma problem solving methodologies and show (through hard data and facts) where the organizational problems really lie. Then hopefully someone in the senior ranks will recognize (and want to act on) the truth of the matter.

TygerDawg

 

[PennStateIE]

tygerdawg...You hit it on the nose...I'm too far down the corporate totem pole to make this type of corporate change...especially considering I sit in corporate and the facility is a few hours away, no one seems to listen. Some management have come to accept the downtime and the finger pointing and have been convinced that major downtime is just part of manufacturing.

I've been thru 6-sigma training and try to utilize the DMAIC process, but without buy in from the appropriate people I seem to just spin my wheels.

Does anyone have any benchmarks on downtime? I say anything more than 10% is unacceptable, but they routinely accept upwards of 30%.

Thanks!

 

[BertiSon]

As appoximate values which can be aimed at with Total Productive Maintenance Nakajima indicates an availability of more than 90%, an efficiency factor (concerns speed losses) of more than 95% and a quality rate of more than 99%.
He shares your claim and also your observation, that it´s often worse...

 

[automatic2]

Maintenance and production are like arteries, at some point up the structural ladder they merge. It is at this merging that you need to sit down with that individual and discuss some philosophies about the operation. It is here that you will discover through investigative probing, the likelyhood of improvement. The journey begins here, and travels back down through the structure, enlisting key members along the way. Yes, you need to talk with operators, maintenance personal, and employ a variety of tools to encourage action. Downtime is poor terminology, as one could agree that a prolonged reduction in efficiencies can be more detrimental than outright stoppages. One must ascertain the capabilities of the process, and the efficiencies required. From there it's an application of fundamentals.

 

[PennStateIE]

Thanks for your comments.

BertiSon, What do you mean concerns speed losses? Do you mean that if a machine can run at 60 units per minute, but more parts fail, quality is decreased, etc. running constantly at this speed, the efficiency is hurt?

On that note, how does an IE go about measuring that? If I'm told the machine is rated for 100 units per minute, however I'm told that the machine breaks down more often when running at the speed, what would be a good course of action?

Thanks!

 

[automatic2]

A good course of action would be to learn the process and evaluate the shortfalls. That's usually the easy part. The hard part is devising an action plan to overcome the deficiencies, and selling it to the appropriate management level. Make sure your selling to the right person(s) otherwise your efforts are for not.

 

[JTreglio]

I agree with automatic2 on this, but I would suggest that rather than try to sell your action plan to management, sell them hiring an outside consultant to review the situation and prepare an action plan, even going to the extent of finding and recommending a specific consultant that you know you can work with or that you know can do the job. You see, management almost never listens to their own staff, whom they hired and know are competent. Rather they listen to consultants about whom they know nothing. Now, odds are they won't hire the competent consultant that you selected (if you do, mission accomplished), but an incompetent one. Now, you make sure the consultant knows of the work that you've done, but don't push it on him -- jsut give it to him as "background" material. Invariably, rather than doing any real work, he'll rewrite your material, since he's not capable of doing the work himself (or too lazy). Now your action plan can be implemented because management can't deny a plan that they paid money to have developed.

Jim Treglio
Molecular Metallurgy, Inc.

 

[PennStateIE]

Jim,
You don't know how true that is...and very funny!

You know how they got the word "CONSULTANT"? Combined Con and Insult.

Thanks for the tip...Maybe I should start my own consulting firm, convince management to pay that firm and then give them the same report I already gave them.

 

[looslib]

"Those that can do, do.
Those that cannot do, teach.
Those that cannot teach, consult."


"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."
"Fixed in the next release" should replace "Product First" as the PTC slogan.

Ben Loosli
CAD/CAM System Analyst
Ingersoll-Rand

 

[RobWard]

I appreciate your problem.
I have some machines which need a lot of maintenance. I have asked the production manager to schedule in two days of downtime per machine for an overhaul. He said "No, we can't afford the downtime".
Well, if one breaks down and it takes a week to fix he'd have to live with it. He can afford the downtime. He just doesn't want to.
So....I'm going to tell him that it IS being shut down, and I AM going to pinch some of your staff to help me.
He can't see the bigger picture, but you can bet that if there was a breakdown, I'll be blamed for not fixing it.

I've also pointed out to the senior management that regular maintenance which is supposed to be carried out by the production staff isn't being done (filter changes and the like). The claim they are, but are lying. So the senior management have okayed either surrepticiously marking filters to proove they've not been changed or starting a paperwork scheme whereby filters have to be signed of as changed and thus a degree of responsibility created.

What I have discovered though is that there are some employees who DO care, and when they see that regular maintenance is better, increases overall production and thus helps their bonuses, are keen on carrying it out (and ratting out their skiving boss to boot!)

Without knowing more details about your exact situation it's hard to comment on where the blame lies.
It rarely lies totally with one group though, and as has been said, the absolute best thing to try to achieve is to get everyone pulling in the same direction!

"I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go past." Douglas Adams

 

[omar12]

Hi,

Production vs. Maintenance- who is reponsible for the downtime?

1. Machine Breakdown causes:
a. Heat b. Vibration

Preventive Maintenance reduces breakdowns caused by heat
and vibration.

Setup - Inspects Machine prior to use and reports
deficiencies to Supervisor. Supervisor logs
deficiency and Maintenance schedule to fix and
fix according to risk.

Operator - Inspect machine operations after it has been
setup. Report any problem to supervisor.
(procedure same as before)

Plant Manager and Maintenance Manager meet to review
P.M. schedule and Repair Schedule. Production Control
is in meeting and reports on hot jobs and production to
inventory. Plant Manager verifies with sales department
on deliveries promises and safety stock in inventory of
the part scheduled for production. Maintenance Manager
estimates downtime required and Plant Manager and Maintenance Manager agree on when to schedule work. Weekends only for critical work ( too expensive). There is always overcapacity calculated into production lines to allow for scheduled maintenance. What is the problem in your facility? I think you are being taken for a ride or budgets are not adequate to fix it right the first time.

an old Corporate I.E.

 

[Hartridge]

1st Get your facts. What is the current maintenance schedule. Do the procedures say who does the preventative maintenace and when, is it the Operators or Maintenance. Does anyone have to sign to say they have done it. Without everyone agreeing and understanding their responsibilities you wont be able to go anywhere.

2nd Calculate your Overall Equipment Effectiveness. This is Utilisation x Speed x Quality. From the above this appears to be 70% up time x 60% of potential speed x 95% for quality. => OEE =0.7x0.6x0.95 =40% You have got a lot of hidden factory out there. This last figure might help with your arguement to get some help in.

Good luck

 

[joecontrol]

In reading all the posts the one thing you must remember is you are dealing with people and they must all "feel" they are not being ignored. I have worked on both sides of the fence and have found if you make each group feel they are making things better they will ,sometimes unknowingly, start to help each other.

For this to occur you must let everyone in on all the informtion you are getting from both groups.

If it is possible to get the "leader" of each dept to sit with you say 1 hour a week and just make a punch list of "breakdowns" and "repairs completed" and "work stoppages for unknown reasons".

I am sure you will see a pattern.

#1 the person in charge must be willing to make changes to make things better otherwise all is for not.

Joe