Mandatory overtime - should I be happy or sad? 6

[cedarbluffranch]

We had a big meeting at work today and I found out that they are going to require mandatory Saturday shifts for the engineers working on my program. The company estimates that the mandatory Saturdays will last for 4 months, though it could easily last longer than that.

I'm happy about it. I work at a place that pays overtime (1.2 times straight time) so I'm not working for free. I anticipated this coming for a while so it's not a surprise.

A lot of people are upset about it, though, since they already make plenty of money and don't really care for overtime.

What would you think in my situation? I'm curious, and if you're willing, please put your age or number of years experience to compare.

(By the way, I'm really not wondering what I should feel. My real question is what is your opinion.)

 

[KENAT]

Well, there's the "you should be grateful to have a job" perspective in this current climate.

Given that we almost certainly have lay offs in our futre I'd probably rather be in your boat.

That said, I value my weekends more than most because I work away from home in the week so having to work Saturdays would suck.

If I just had to do equivalent hours but in my normal 4 day work week, or even just working Friday extra, then I actually wouldn't mind right now. The money would be handy, and frankly I don't have much else going on during the evenings when I'm out of town. Plus I probably do a little more than 40 most weeks so actually getting payed for it wouldn't be so bad.

If I worked in town I'd live with it, though if it lasted too long it may get old.

I've known people that on defense jobs back in I believe the 80's had compulsary 60 hour weeks for months on end. That would be a bit much for me.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[ctopher]

It is entirely up to you.
I'm salary and sometimes jobs require to work on Saturday.

My last company also made Sat overtime required for 4 months. I always had my work finished ahead of schedule and didn't need overtime.
I refused to work it because of 8 hrs work, I was only paid 4 hours.
The Co. president was mad and called me into his office. I told him there was no point because I commuted 37 miles, finished ahead a schedule, and had no work to do on Sat.
I was the only one exempt.

If you like to work overtime and it helps to get your project finished, it could look good to mgmt.
If you do it just for the money and not get much accomplished, it may hurt you and the company in the long run.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

 

[sandman21]

I do what is required to get the project done; I don’t do it for free mind you I get OT pay, also if I finished my work I would find something to do to help the project get done on time. I have worked for a month straight on a project, the last week I got home at 1 left for work at 5 everyday, that last week was not fun, but the project got done and everyone was happy.

 

[SomptingGuy]

It depends on your age and circumstances.

When I was in my mid 20's, a day in the office on a Saturday was a good thing. As well as being productive (no competition for equipment or facilities), I could count the hours requires to pay for ... a new tyre for my bike, a boat ticket to the Isle, etc. Almost like working for luxuries.



- Steve

 

[PEDARRIN2]

I am in my early forties and have about 8 years in my current career choice.

I think it depends on your marital status and whether you have kids.

If single and/or no kids, I think short term OT on weekends would be money in the bank. Grab it while you can.

If your normal shift is 8hr/day, then you are only talking 48 hours in a week. In my present situation, it is expected, but not required to work at least 45 hours/week. This last year, due to workload and stuff, I have averaged probably 50+ hours per week - sometimes with evenings, nights, and weekends. But then I am single and don't have custody of my kids.

Even with wife and/or kids, if it was short term, I think it would be ok. But if short term became long term or permanent, then things would have to be re-evaluated. I know of many people who worked a lot of hours and lost time with family. I don't work late on the days I have my girls. Not worth it in my opinion.

As stated previously, having overtime - even if mandatory - in the current economic climate could be a good thing.

 

[lansford]

When I started my career, I worked in the field for a large eastern PA steel company (now gone). One year out of college and in this job, fantastic benefits (all paid), 6 weeks vacation (could sell 2 weeks back for cash), paid time and one half for Saturday work (always available).
AND WE STILL COMPLAINED!
Now at mid fifties, working as a consultant no benefits, no time off, no vacation, no sick time...
I guess I am getting paid back !!
JIM

 

[moltenmetal]

Here's the way I look at it:

If an employer pays for O/T, it becomes effectively MANDATORY when asked for- within reason. Got plane tickets and a hotel booked for a holiday? Sure, you get a pass. But otherwise, you'd better show up!

If an employer doesn't pay for O/T, they can ask, but you should feel free to say no.

Four months of steady Saturdays? Sounds like the firm needs to HIRE some folks! No way I'd put up with that!

O/T pay should include a premium above the regular wage to compensate for the tax costs and the inconvenience, or it's hardly fair. The usual rate is 1.5x, not 1.2x.

Compelling uncompensated overtime from employees is unethical. No engineer should put up with it. As to how it's compensated, via time in lieu (which you are permitted to either TAKE or be paid for later), a meaningful bonus/profit sharing arrangement, shares/options or something else of MONETARY value, that's between you and your employer.

I've been at my most recent company for 12 years and I've worked plenty of O/T- because it was needed- and have been richly compensated for it. I've even slept at my desk a few nights. But aside from getting on a plane, or on a remote site somewhere, I've NEVER worked a Saturday or a Sunday- not even at home. Period. If they ask, I say it's for "religious reasons". End of discussion! Everybody's got to draw the line somewhere, and having a couple days off to de-stress and spend with my family is my bottom line.

If you're working uncompensated O/T to brown-nose your boss, or because you feel so indispensible that the place will fall down like a house of cards around your head unless you do, I'd suggest you get a life. Working some O/T for free to learn something or to meet a deadline is one thing, but consistently donating large amounts of YOUR time to a profitable company is idiotic. It's preventing the hiring of others who could be helping you. No amount of self-sacrifice you make on behalf of your firm will be refused. Not necessarily acknowledged, or even noticed, but it won't be refused...Never forget that!

 

[MiketheEngineer]

1.5 times salary is the norm.

 

[waskillywabbit]

1.2 times straight time? Sounds like you are getting shafted. OT here starts at 1.5 times.

 

[cedarbluffranch]

How many exempt engineers here get 1.5x for overtime? I'm well aware that non-exempt (i.e., hourly) employees earn 1.5X. But what about engineers?

I've read that a lot of salaried (i.e., exempt) employees don't get overtime at all, so it seems that 1.2X is at least getting paid for the OT.

 

[Lion06]

I'd be happy to get straight time for anything over 40!

 

[waskillywabbit]

Some of us "employees" ARE "engineers". I work at a union shop and we still get paid for the hours we work where 50 hrs/wk is the norm, not the exception.

 

[thruthefence]

Isn't there some arcane government definition of overtime for certain salaried workers? It seems like a few years ago they changed the rules, making some folks "supervisory" with a pen stroke, even if they have no authority or responsibility's in the classic "supervisory sense" ? And it seems like they drew the line at 50 hrs/week for these newly anointed "supervisory personnel" Therefore, up to 50 hrs a week, no compensation. Correct me, anyone? I'm not sure if it got the engineering staff, but it did affect people like Shop supervisors or foremen,'Charge nurses' on the hospital floor, etc. Of course, the businesses affected could still pay overtime if they choose, but if they're "belt-tightening", they had this ruling to fall back on.

 

[moltenmetal]

Some companies pay OT only to their junior engineers. Some pay at 1.5x, some at 1x. Some not at all.

I had the good fortune to be a young, single engineer working for a company that paid 1.5x for OT- and had a contract which would bear the cost. I was a very happy kid! Didn't last, though. STILL never worked a weekend...

Don't get paid for it at all, in any way? Don't WORK it!

Again, there's more than one way to compensate for O/T. Ways that are fair to both employee and employer.

Some people confuse being on salary with being a sucker, or they confuse being a "professional" with being a wage-slave. A professional doesn't de-value their profession's services by giving them away absolutely for free!

 

[ctopher]

California law:

http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/FAQ_overtime.htm

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

 

[MadMango]

IF I got compensated for the OT (x1.5 or time off, etc) AND the project really needed the extra effort, I would not mind working those Saturdays. You can be sure that I would find out the reasons the project fell behind or who so inadequately planned it to require me to work those Saturdays, just so I wouldn't have to do it again. I hate working weekends because I have a life outside work. When I am asked to do so, I ask if it is for moral support 'cause my work is planned on a 40hr work-week and a given due date.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of these Forums?

 

[casseopeia]

I think the pay and the limited amount of time you will have to work on Saturdays makes it far more tolerable. I don't get paid for OT, not that I've been asked to work any lately.

Things here are too slow for my taste and I worry every single day if this is the day I am let go. I'd take the Saturday work at 1.2x regular rate right now, although I'd be tempted to make a later start time so I could go to my regular Sat cardio class and followup gossip session with my girlfriends. THAT I just couldn't give up!

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

 

[thruthefence]

MadMango, Just make sure that when you go seeking the folks that caused the backlog, it is something that falls into your area of responsibility and you can proactively make corrections. Too much digging into other's areas & pionting fingers will only cause you grief, especially when your primary reason is that you "plan" your life around "YOUR NEEDS: emphasis on "your". This is guaranteed to get you a note in the margin of someones "book of squeaky wheels" Sometimes such wheels get greased, sometimes the get replaced.

 

[KENAT]

I've seen a range on 'overtime for engineers'.

From it being expected for free, time in lieu, time in lieu at 1.5X, straight pay, 1.25X and 1.5X.

I also worked some late in 2002 where they didn't want to approve overtime but gave me a big old end of year bonus that was equivalent of about 1.5X.

I've only worked weekends maybe 5 (not including some business travel) times and at least one of those was so I could meet deadline and still leave early on a Friday.

All the big talk of not putting up with mandatory overtime is great if you really are so in demand that you can afford to tell your employer to go stick it and walk into another position. However, for some of us the economic reality is the we need to be a bit more cautious, maybe suck it up a bit here and there.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?