Mandatory overtime - should I be happy or sad? 6

[cedarbluffranch]

We had a big meeting at work today and I found out that they are going to require mandatory Saturday shifts for the engineers working on my program. The company estimates that the mandatory Saturdays will last for 4 months, though it could easily last longer than that.

I'm happy about it. I work at a place that pays overtime (1.2 times straight time) so I'm not working for free. I anticipated this coming for a while so it's not a surprise.

A lot of people are upset about it, though, since they already make plenty of money and don't really care for overtime.

What would you think in my situation? I'm curious, and if you're willing, please put your age or number of years experience to compare.

(By the way, I'm really not wondering what I should feel. My real question is what is your opinion.)

 

[moltenmetal]

KENAT: sure, it varies with circumstances. It also varies with maturity and experience.

Early in my career I thought I had little to offer other than my willingness to work hard. I learned the hard way. I gave away a great many hours which ultimately were of no benefit to me. Nobody was giving me any shares for my extra effort, much less any extra pay- and there was no profit sharing (nor any profit TO share). Even if I HAD managed to rescue the place from its eventual fate, OTHERS would have benefitted monetarily from it- not me.

When I got put onto work-share (four day weeks) for the first time, it was like a blindfold had been removed from my eyes. My work week dropped from 60-70 hrs over five days to 32 over four- and my pay dropped by only 10% (due to a government work-share program). Even a dumb kid knew that you don't work unpaid O/T when the company's dropped you to four day weeks- And I had a whole day off every week to look for another job!

Since then I have not worked any significant time which wasn't recognized monetarily in some way- aside from when volunteering for non-profit organizations etc. I'm happy to work extra for an ownership stake, profit sharing, or time off that I am actually free to take. But I'll never again work absolutely for free.

And neither will the engineers who work for me.

The workaholics are really a tough one though. How do you deal with people who work for free because they're sick, have no life, and try to fill in the void in their lives with work? Even for employers trying to do the right thing, the workaholics represent a real puzzle. One hint though: NEVER work for one! You'll regret it...

 

[stanweld]

When I worked on the Space Shuttle program, mandatory overtime was initiated by NASA. Most of my fellow engineers quite liked the OT because they knew that layoffs could be just around the corner. I, however, was not happy with the OT because for the first 2 mos I had nothing to do on those Saturdays (I could complete the work in < 40 hrs) and it put a damper on my time for skiing. After that, I could not complain because OT was required to complete my work and I was being compensated for it. Having said that, I left the aerospace industry about 2-mos later for more money and more freedom.

 

[jmw]

Big Inch has a very good point about tax.

Now, overtime can be very useful but there is a big BUT in there.
The question is if it is declared in your contract that the company can do this. In some countries this would be regarded as a change of contractual terms, can be regarded, paradoxically, as a constructive dismissal just as if they decided to move the factory 10 miles down the road, move you from day shift to night shift and so on.

If there is a situation where extra hours are required then I would have hoped for a management that approaches its workforce in better spirit than simply to announce mandatory overtime at 1.2 x normal and especially for Saturdays.
As others have said, 1.5 times salary is more usual and more still for unsociable hours.

If I were the employer and there was reasonable moral then I'd make some attractive terms, declare an amount of work to be done and ask for applicants on a first come first served basis.
Since many of us engineers already may work extra hours (unpaid) during the week, one wonders whether those engineers who do work the extra hours and who are now compelled to come in on Saturdays will adopt a more clock watching attitude to the rest of the week. I mean, why work evenings in the week for free when you are not compelled to when by working at the weekend you are going to earn extra.

You know, dependent on the mood, there are all sorts of ways to fix their (management) wagon if you don't like their attitude.

By the way, any situation like this where there is no legal obligation to comply is an opportunity to NEGOTIATE.


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[thruthefence]

I wonder how many of us are concerned about how of this stuff gets posted on the company's nickel?

 

[cksh]

Everyone that still gets paid overtime should be thankful these days. I don't see it much anymore. But I am automotive so maybe that's my problem.

My company is one of those "be thankful we are letting you work here" places.

I do not get paid overtime. We work until the job is done. 8 to 5 no matter if we have work to do or not. and 24/7 if you can't meet deadlines.

I have a problem with it if the reason I can't get stuff done is more of an organizational issue. Alot of our engineers work 12 hour days. They never seem to catch up. And if it looks like a job might be winding down they give them more work. Why hire more employees when you just work your engineers to death. To be honest though I think some of them like it.

That's why I like companies that pay overtime. They don't like to pay it

 

[Tunalover]

moltenmetal-

"And neither will the engineers who work for me."
Engineers work for the company not you so you might want to be careful with how you choose your words.


Tunalover

 

[moltenmetal]

tunalover: you are correct of course that the average manager doesn't set policy of this sort.

The average manager DOES have control over whether or not they compell uncompensated overtime from their staff, though. And it's their ethical obligation NOT to do so. Ask, sure! Demand, or compell as a condition of continued employment- no way. Demanding uncompensated overtime from your underlings so you can get a bigger performance bonus yourself is pretty sleazy, don't you think?

Fortunately at present, I'm not just a manager- I do have some ownership, and a position which gives me a say in regard to how the engineers are compensated. The existing system pre-dated my joining, and the wonderful things this system does for the company in terms of individual and group performance and staff/skill retention is one of the key reasons I chose to join.

If the other owners decided tomorrow to cancel the way we compensate for O/T and performance, instead choosing to extort uncompensated overtime from our professional staff for greater personal gain, I'd be out the next day. They'd be slaying the goose that lays the golden eggs. You're of course right that I might not be so lucky at my next firm!