Material & Test Certification & Recording

[geeoowanjee]

Hello

Can anyone help me with a query I have personally regarding material & test certification for valves and the recording of them.

I work for a valve trader and our current policy is to photocopy or print out certification in duplicate to allow us to keep hard copies of certification even when the valves are sold, reason being for auditing after the event.

My question is why can’t these be kept electronically instead? (scanned and saved – backed up to a disk for security)
Surely this is sufficient for record keeping, bearing in mind that we do not manufacture and no longer have the valves once they’re sold.

If required, we could still print out the certs as and when required by an audit. Surely printing them out in duplicate as standard is just a waste of money and just as importantly a waste of paper.
Further, I am told that this is a requirement to conform with a given auditing body although nobody has quite been able to tell me which auditing body.

If it is though, then this means that all traders of valves and i assume other metal products; and there are a few, are printing out duplicate copies of these certs as standard which would make this waste of paper problem quite severe globally.

Can anyone advise on this and where can I find the rules of the road to help me educate either myself or; at least the people I work with, to stop this actually quite serious environmental issue.

Thanks very much.

G

 

[gerhardl]

Please note that this is a personal comment, others might differ in opinion.

In my opinion there is no single answer to your question. If you look at the history of certification and past and present development worldwide of the different organizations/authorities, this is not something staic. New developments and alterations happens every day.

Present situation is that especially large end-users perhaps now lean more and more towards electronic storage of documents, including certificates, especially for longterm storing and easy refinding/tracking.

Counter to this the original problem of certification has to be caretaken: 'how to prove beyond doubt' that a certain product is correct?

Worldwide this has been solved by some people coming together, doing the test prescribed, write and sign a certificate, and this paper certificate then beeing the juridical binding document following the product, both product and certificate marked to prove authentity.

Normally, as you mention, the certificate or 'authorized copy' then will follow the product, all handling links normally storing a copy to give an unbroken track record.

As a third point all companies handling certificates will usually have a (required) QA-system, describing how to handle and store certificates and copies of certificates. (What does your procedure say at present?)

Now, to come to a preliminary conclusion, following 'procedures and rules' must agree from the given point in the transaction link of a product, that only an electronic copy of a certificate is necessary to be kept (eg. no paper copy) at your stage:

1. Your own QA procedure
2. The rules you are certifieid to (EN.. or whatever)
3. The certifying procedures (QA) for the company giving you your QA general certification must allow it.
4. Your other 'legal surroundings' (local laws and rules etc.)
5. The commercial agreement with your customer must allow it.
6. The commercial agreement must not collide with customers or end users (or any other down the commercial side) procedures and requirements (point 1 to 5)
7. Finally: Storing electronically at your stage must not collide with any requirements regulated by end users 'legal surroundings' (laws and regulations for local area, country, offshore, industry type etc).

Not that easy to comply, especially as you and the end-user might be operating under different set of rules.

...And all this stemming from the fact that some people always will try to sell you the 'non genuine falsified' product, knowingly or not...

But, as you, I hope we will get there soonest.

Electronic coding and marking and tracking (codechips) on products will help things going this way, and will certainly give a single-product information storage and handling revolution within the next few years.

This will hopefully include electronic certificate tracking and storing.

..PS! Interesting question, made me think a bit!

 

[SJones]

EN 10204 Clause 5 states:
"The retention and transmission of documents shall be either in electronic data or paper form."

Clause 6 Transmission of documents by an intermediary (intermediary = you as the valve seller) allows copies, provided that the originals are available on request and traceability procedures are operated.

Clause 6 is where traders and stockist generally fall down with end users owing to only having photocopies of photocopies of photocopies passed down the supply chain; most end users want a 'red line' copy traceable to the original.

Auditors can only audit against stated requirements - you have to find out where those stated requirements are. If it is a quality system audit, the requirements could be in the control of records procedure. This procedure will be required by oil and gas companies requiring compliance with ISO/TS 29001.

Steve Jones
Materials & Corrosion Engineer

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/8/83b/b04