Material selection - Cylinder sleeves

[Mark Getrow]

What would be a recommended material for machining a cylinder sleeve?
G3000 spun-cast iron seem to be quite popular, but I'd love to hear an expert opinion on this.

Application is an air-cooled motorcycle engine; aluminum finned shell, pressed-in flanged sleeve.
The sleeves have 3-1/2" bore, 1/8" wall thickness, about 6-3/4" total length.

EDITED to add: this is 100% custom design, not a catalogue item (unfortunately).

Thanks!!!

 

[enginesrus]

4140 steel of course.

 

[EdStainless]

A wide range of steels and cast iron have been used for this.
CI liners work great, but are usually thicker.
Thin sleeves are often steels, usually low alloy med carbon grades.
Look in aftermarket catalogs, you will see a wide range of options.

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P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[MintJulep]

Is there really no other option to machining your own?

OEM replacements not available?

Aftermarket replacements not available?

Not possible to bore or hone the existing and use oversize rings?

 

[Mark Getrow]

Thanks for the responses.

Steel is probably out of the question due to cost and lack of desired longevity.
This is custom application, no OEM replacements available that I could think of.

 

[EdStainless]

What is the sleeve OD?
Is there a reason that you can't get a piece of 3.5 pipe in 4130 or 4140 and just machine it?
The material isn't special and neither is the size.

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P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[Mark Getrow]

IMHO, steel liners won't work with the OEM-style piston rings available on the market. Oil rings have steel rails and most likely will destroy the steel sleeves and the rest of the motor with them. Not something I want to undertake, lol
The OEM sleeve material for this application is gray iron and I'd like to stick with that, just trying to figure out the correct Grade.

 

[TugboatEng]

Electro Motive uses steel liners with stainless steel faced rings for their engines. They work well together. I wish I could tell you the alloy, though. They use laser hardening if that helps. The cylinders are fabricated by welding so it must be a weldable alloy. Some Googling of SAE and laser hardening brings up hits on 4130. That is likely the material used.

 

[Tmoose]

https://www.lasleeve.com/tech/all-purpose-sleeves

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Plenty of tech info about flange design, installation fits, caveats about missing cylinder material etc.

https://www.melling.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Melling-2018-Cylinder-Sleeve-Catalog.pdf

 

[EdStainless]

Or you just buy one

https://www.summitracing.com/search...length-in:7-000-in+wall-thickness-in:0-125-in

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P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[Mark Getrow]

As much as I wish for an off the shelf item, this is 100% custom design...

 

[EdStainless]

Why can't you buy a Melling and machine your custom one out of it?
They aren't that expensive.
Or have Melling make it for you, though that will cost.

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P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[EHudson]

Cast iron is a good bet for most piston and ring combinations. As for steel, aircraft cylinders are nitrided for wear and chrome rings work against that material. Regular steels are not so good for cylinders.

If your cylinder is rigid enough on its own you can have it plated with Nickle-Silicon carbide and diamond honed. (U.S. Chrome in Fond du Lac, WI) Ask about preferred ring face treatments.

 

[gruntguru]

Darton sleeves.
Link

je suis charlie

 

[Tmoose]

"EDITED to add: this is 100% custom design, not a catalogue item (unfortunately)."

with the dimensions provided ( ID, OD, length)it sure looks to me like there are commercial sleeves that could be used directly, or be a good starting point for modification.

Another option night be Dura-bar gray iron or ductile . Short lengths of mighty similar sounding material are available from McMaster Carr.
The sizes and materials available as Dura Tube are not very obvious on their website.

There might be some grade of commercially available pipe worth looking at.

 

[Jack Gifford]

For about 12 seasons I used steel sleeves in the aluminum V8 block of my blown alcohol minipuller (370 c.i., 900 HP). Machined from seamless DOM tubing, but I don't recall the alloy. There wasn't anything unusual about the ring sets- I merely told the ring manufacturer about the steel sleeves.

 

[SwinnyGG]

Steel is probably out of the question due to cost and lack of desired longevity.
This is custom application, no OEM replacements available that I could think of.

As much as I wish for an off the shelf item, this is 100% custom design...

The OEM sleeve material for this application is gray iron and I'd like to stick with that, just trying to figure out the correct Grade.

If you care about cost, which you do according to your statement about steel being too expensive, than your most cost effective option BY FAR is to find an existing sleeve with the correct bore and OD, which you would design your block to accept. A sleeve being steel vs. cast iron is not a significant driver of cost; a sleeve being custom made from bar or rotary cast, then heat treated, machined, and honed is a HUGE cost driver. In other words, a custom cast iron sleeve is going to cost you way, way more than an existing steel sleeve that you can buy off the shelf.

You also say that whatever you're doing is '100% custom' but also that there's an OEM sleeve for whatever application you're working on. So which is it?

 

[Tmoose]

from OP's Member profile - "My last login was on Wednesday, November 17, 2021"