Material test Certificates 3

[EagerLearner]

What is a Material test certificate?

Do we need this each time we order a std 316SS orifice plate?

Can we have one certificate to represent a shipment of orifice plates of different sizes, class and thickness?

 

[MintJulep]

A material test certificate is a useless piece of paper that contains the words "This [thing you bought from us] has been tested in accordance to [some test standard]."

The wording implies that the test pasted, although this often isn't the case.

The wording clearly states that a test has been performed, although this often isn't the case.

Do you need one? Are you reselling the plates?

Can you have one certificate for many? Sure, it saves the forgers time and paper.

 

[qcrobert]

MintJulep is pretty close to the definition but I will add that the Certificate is a voucher for a part that is made from material that has the physical & chemical properties of said material part that meets a particular standard such as ASME Section II (applicable part A or B)...

 

[EagerLearner]

thank you MintJulep and qcrobert... at least i know its not that useful


i dont know if i need any...

nope we are buying for our end user

 

[redpicker]

Material Test Report
Certified Test Report
Mill Test Report
Manufacturer's Test Report

(Replace Report with Certificate as desired)

None of these have a standardized meaning. They can essentially mean whaever the user of the term wants them to mean. If you are purchasing material, good practice would be to define what documentation you need to satisfy your needs in the purchase agreement; this is the only way you can be sure the supplier understands what it is you want.

We sell a lot of material and often will supply much more paper than the customer actually request, with certificates that we meet all the applicable specifications, actual test results of all the chemical and mechanical tests, certificates of every NDT performed, as well as any additional testing required. In our business, we find it easier to give the customer too much documentation than not enough, since indadquate documentation will often delay payment. But, we sell a lot of mateiral. Our larger customers have specific requriements for the documentation, detailing the required content, language used, units of measurement, etc... I've even seen the size of the paper specified and color of the ink used.

So, if your customer has specific requirements for the documentation, you should make those requirements clear to your supplier; otherwise you may not get what you need.

rp

 

[EagerLearner]

Thanks redpicker. Good info.

Normally we purchased std 316SS orifice plate and couple of times we purchased duplex or super duplex SS.

so for the 316ss we normally include cert of conformance and material test rpt. we also incl hydrostatic test without chart recorder.
i am new here and i was told this is sufficient. and normally the they make copies of the mtr for a number of orifice plates.

 

[Duwe6]

If you buy the material to an SA spec the testing is mandatory. If you buy "316 s/s", nothing is mandatory; it is just supposed to resemble stainless steel.

Buy "SA-240 Type 316" and note on your PO 'CMTR required'.

 

[qcrobert]

Duwe6 offers sound advice.

As a fabrication facility, I always demand a CMTR on all our SS plates w/ matching ht. nos. because we may be fabricating a pressure vessel for which it is required of use the rems for products not requiring a CMTR.

When you stated you were ordering orfice plate, do you mean are ordering the plate to fabricate an orfice plate or do you mean you are purchasing a finished orfice plate made out of SA316L?

"Can we have one certificate to represent a shipment of orifice plates of different sizes, class and thickness?"

Yes this may happen with the same material in different thicknesses IF the material all came from the same coil. Normally this is not the case.

QCRobert

 

[EagerLearner]

Thank you Duwe6 and QCRobert.

I meant purchasing finished orifice plates. Everything done by factory. We are purchase this for our end user.

 

[metengr]

Certificates of Conformance are absolutely worthless. Don't confuse certificate with report because as mentioned above what you specify as a Purchaser should be in the report.

 

[EagerLearner]

Thanks metengr

What is the difference between Cert of Comformance and Cert of Compliance?

 

[metengr]

There is no difference, just general statements where the material meets the specification. No test data.

 

[PAN]

MTC is necessary. However, the traceability is more vital.

 

[stanweld]

Because 316 SS and 304 SS are commonly mixed, PMI testing is recommended upon receiving the material; this is the only guarantee that you will actually receive the alloy purchased.

 

[Duwe6]

Even worse that 304 being substituted for your required 316, 303 may be substituted because it is so much easier to derill/machine to make the knife-edge hole for an orifice plate.

 

[QAFitz]

- 316 SS is chemistry.
- UNS S31600 is chemistry under the Unified Numbering System
- ASTM A-xxx or ASME SA-xxx are Material Specifications
with specific chemistry and physical properties to meet
the ASTM or ASME Material Specification
As noted in other posts above,
Q: What is the difference between Cert of Conformance and Cert
of Compliance?
A: There is no difference, just general statements where the
material meets the specification. No test data.
ASTM and ASME publish standard definitions.
Also. a level of confidence between the buyer and seller is essential in any safety related area.

 

[Sparweb]

If this is a finished product, then the question is:

"Does the certificate attest that the part has been manufactured in accordance with the drawing and materials list provided by the client"?

If you expect your supplier to sell you consistent parts every time you order, and especially if you have a legal requirement to provide parts that conform to some approved design (I'm thinking of my roots in aircraft parts, of course, but there are many other examples that apply), then you need some assurance that your supplier sells you what you ask for.

Otherwise the legal liability trail ends with you!

In many cases this legal stuff doesn't matter (eg, aftermarket auto parts, farm equipment, etc. wherever the cut-throats rule instead of the lawyers).


Steven Fahey, CET

 

[EagerLearner]

The orifice plates are not the same all the time. Yes, our end user do specify their spec but they do not exactly mentioned it if it is a normal 316 SS. But for DSS and SDSS, they do ask for certain mandatory tests or certification

 

[waterpipe]

While reading the previous posts, I would like to remind you of something:
If it comes to claims and arbitration (not necessarily now, but in n years), that little piece of paper called Cert or whatever, could save your company. So, my two cents: Follow what your spec and purchaser call for even if it looks like a worthless paper to you.

 

[EagerLearner]

thanks waterpipe..i'll keep that in mind