Mechanical Closets - drywall ceiling required?

[Designer_82]

The contractor installed the sprinklers exposed pvc in the mechanical closets.

Found out the builder didn't drywall the ceilings in these closets due to a lot of piping.

My question is, are these closets required to have drywall ceiling per code?


Pictures for reference.

https://postimg.cc/Th6KGPDK

https://postimg.cc/ThJpPXVC

https://postimg.cc/vc8DgSXM

https://postimg.cc/pmpTkhg6

https://postimg.cc/zy6fQDNX

https://postimg.cc/sQNQ3Pd7

 

[cdafd]

Yes for several reasons

1. To help the sprinkler activate

2. So the fire and smoke does not extend into the unprotected area, at the top

3. The cvpc normally has to be protected, normally by drywall

So yes add the ceiling

I am guessing it does not have to be fire rated. So fit it in as best as possible

 

[Designer_82]

Thanks for your feedback.

Is it a specific code requirement though?

 

[cdafd]

NFPA 13

Sorry do not have the book, readily available

So

1. Install per manufacture instructions

2. Install per listing, the cvpc you need the specific brand, but most if you get the entire install instructions,,, up front the listing says pipe cannot be installed bare,, must have protection, with some exceptions,,, which you do not meet.

3. Sprinkler must be installed with in so many inches of ceiling.. which yours is not. So great possibility it will not activate.


4. Entire building, depending on which version of 13 is used, shall have sprinklers through out, sometimes including void spaces,,, which leaving the ceiling out,, there is a very nice void space


Your sprinkler company designer can give you the standard sections

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

The question whether or not the mechanical room requires a ceiling IS NOT ours to make!

When I speak of "ours" I am referring to the majority on the forum who are most likely state licensed fire sprinkler designers who hold NICET III or IV certification.

While I am 100% sure the closet requires a rated ceiling but that call is not mine to make it is the TOTAL responsibility of the registered architect who is responsible for the project.

I wouldn't make that call because I am NOT a registered architect and should I make that decision I am practicing architecture without a license which is illegal in every state that I hold a sprinkler designers license.

I would go to the architect of record for the project, his name and seal should be on the drawings, and ask him. You WILL end up with a ceiling even if the idiot plumber has to tear everything out and redo.

There is a difference between codes and standards. Standards are NFPA and FM Global documents while codes are passed by state legislature and become laws.

I stay out of the building code because I am not qualified and why should I take any responsibility to do the job that is someone else's?

I have a three story apartment building that requires sprinklers in a state that recognizes NFPA #13 and NFPA #13R. On my three story building what standard do I use?

NOT my decision to make, it is the TOTAL 100% responsibility of the registered architect of record to tell me what standard to use.

Most likely it is NFPA #13R but I would not stake my life on it which is what you are doing if you make that decision. I know of a three story apartment building where the sprinkler designer decided the design would be NFPA #13R and proceeded with the job. The designer designed it, received approval from the local fire department and was 90% completed when the state fire marshal's office stepped in and required a full NFPA #13 system. Why? Something to do with lot lines, egress and proximity to other structures. Things a sprinkler designer wouldn't, and shouldn't, look for.

What a disaster!

Sorry I went on and on but this is a sore spot with me. If you are a sprinkler designer let the architect do his job because if he tells you the system is NFPA #13R and it turns out to be NFPA #13 that is your get out of jail free card. Why would anyone take responsibility to make a decision that was never theirs to make in the first place?

 

[cdafd]

Sprinklerdesigner2

I totally understand your position on not designing.

On the sprinkler side,, Would you bring the condition shown in the op picture,

To the GC, or some other person up the line??

Just wondering what your approach would be.

Thank you

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

cdafd,

I am all for designing a fire sprinkler system it is something I have been doing since 1974 which makes it 50 years.

It is not the architects job to design the sprinkler system but it IS his job to tell me what standard to design to. Only the registered architect of record, that is the one with the license, will tell me if it is NFPA #13 or NFPA #13R and it is nobody else's job.

It is NOT the general contractors job because he isn't the registered architect of record so what I would do is go directly to the person responsible and that is the registered architect.

To be clear the decision of what standard to use, whether it be NFPA #13 or NFPA #13R, is NOT a part of designing the fire sprinkler system it is absolutely 100% part of the architectural work of which you and I are NOT licensed to do.

Make no mistake about it, it is the architects job tell me what standard to use and from there it is my job to design the system in accordance with the standard.

The correct way to handle your problem is to directly approach the registered architect of record for the correct answer bypassing everyone else.

Based on my experience I am 1,000% sure you will need a ceiling in that closet but I would let the architect of record make that decision and pass it down to the general contractor.

It is like a sprinkler designer trying to tell someone when a sprinkler system is required in a building. I wish it were easy just a simple "any building exceeding 20,000 square feet" sort of thing but there is a lot more that goes into it.

It isn't just the size, square footage, of the building but could be the following as well:

1. What is the occupancy?

2. What is the construction type?

3. What about means of egress? Do you have 120' to travel to an exit or is it 200'? All this goes into the formula as to whether or not a sprinkler system is required.

4. How far away is your building from the lot lines and road frontage?

5. How close is an adjacent building?

I am telling you to let the architect do his job the answer to the closet thing is NOT your decision to make.

 

[cdafd]

Thank you for the response.

I agree not your job to decide which system.

My question was more to field adjustments.

I understand in the picture situation, a sprinkler company would not install the ceiling, but they might have to adjust the sprinkler.

Being an ex ahj, I would see obvious sprinkler location install problems, or like the ceiling, or similar,,,, And some sprinkler installers, would say, well that is where it was shown on the plans.... OK, but just looking at it you can tell it is wrong. And, some told me I had to adjust, because the wall moved.

So before I got there, why did not a few people have some discussions????

Anyway, do not have to deal with all the people involved anymore,

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

I understand in the picture situation, a sprinkler company would not install the ceiling, but they might have to adjust the sprinkler.

Being an ex ahj, I would see obvious sprinkler location install problems, or like the ceiling, or similar,,,, And some sprinkler installers, would say, well that is where it was shown on the plans.... OK, but just looking at it you can tell it is wrong. And, some told me I had to adjust, because the wall moved.

I am 99.999% certain there is no "adjustment" that can be made other than building the building exactly as shown on the approved architectural drawings.

Get the architect of record involved and he will tell the general contractor what he is required to do and that is to tear whatever is in the way out and install a LISTED ceiling as the architect called for in his approved drawings. In this way the problem is solves without the sprinkler sub-contractor getting involved.

I am not an architect but I am willing to bet a minimum 30 minute ceiling is required and that would be 5/8" drywall.

But what would I bet? I would bet nothing because I am not an architect.

We sprinkler layout technicians have our jobs so leave the architects job up to the architect.

So before I got there, why did not a few people have some discussions????

Because they did not understand the proper route to go.

 

[cdafd]

All sounds good