I was just wondering how many people were taught drafting up to ansi standards during their undergrad curriculum? For my undergrad, i had half a semester on autocad. I'm just wondering because my drawings were not up to par (mostly cosmetic). Do most people know this coming out of college?
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Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
- Thread starter dumpsta
- Start date
Drafting gets short shrift because it is considered menial work and not as important as "core" engineering. However, what could be more important than communicating the story of your design to the outside world? Without that link, your design is just a daydream.
Yes, CAD is indeed a cinch for any good engineer to pick up, and it should be. However, expecting someone to create a concise drawing that fully documents a part (subject to only one interpretation) because they know CAD is akin to expecting someone to write an award winning novel because they know how to use a typewriter, or expecting a bicycle mechanic to rebuild your BMW because he has the tools.
Technically, the glass is always full.
Technically, the glass is always full.
- Thread starter
- #23
Wow, thanks for all the replies and suggestions. Yes, my drawings got attacked by a red pen, and it was kind of embarrassing. One of my bosses took a look at them and offered maybe 1 or 2 corrections. Another co-worker took a look at them and marked the whole damn sheet up. When I tried to dispute some of the corrections, I got a "they didn't teach you this at ...", where I replied "not really". Oh well, I'll have to prove myself in the future.
Anyway, I made the corrections and my co-worker signed off. Thanks again for the replies
Anyway, I made the corrections and my co-worker signed off. Thanks again for the replies
JohnRBaker
Mechanical
When I was still making drawings my line work was always pretty good but the lettering was barely passable, but I was told that since I was on track to be an engineer, poor lettering would not be held against me (sort of like how poor penmanship never seemed to hold back any of the MD's I know) however I did make it a point to at least get the numbers right, but then some of that was left over from when I was in high school and worked in a meat market where everything was custom cut, wrapped and the price handwritten on the butcher paper. You quickly learned to make your numbers easy to read and understand. Since that 'skill' carried forward, even to this day, I guess I was given the benefit of the doubt when it came to the lettering of notes and title blocks. Of course, with the advent of CAD, even those items improved significantly ;-)
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
UG/NX Museum:
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
UG/NX Museum:
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
If your CAD course was like mine all it did was teach you how to use the program ...NOT how to drafting to any standards or any discipline. AND thinking you’re a "qualified" drafter and having the training is a BIG mistake. Normally engineers who play with AutoCAD cause more problems then they do generate a finished drawing. PLUS why would any company want to pay and engineer, engineer wages ...doing drafting work, when they can get a qualified drafter to do the work at half the wage of an engineer?
...because CAD makes it so easy we don't need dedicated drafters anymore, just like no typing pools...
Posting guidelines faq731-376 (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484
11echo (Petroleum)
Because If the engineer CAN produce a decent readable drawing, that is one step eliminated.
B.E.
The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor
Because If the engineer CAN produce a decent readable drawing, that is one step eliminated.
B.E.
The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor
ewh,
" " plus engineers are so good today, we don't even need to bother with checking it. ""
Remember the error is always in the piece that you KNOW is correct.
B.E.
The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor
" " plus engineers are so good today, we don't even need to bother with checking it. ""
Remember the error is always in the piece that you KNOW is correct.
B.E.
The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor
The problem with CAD is that it creates minor drafting errors such as where should a hidden line start. If I had submitted a CAD drafting project to my instructor back in the mid 60's he would have knocked some points off for extra little lines where they do not belong.
Another thing CAD drafters seem to lack today is the ability to hand sketch properly and I see this in these posts when sketches are submitted. As a CAD instructor a few years ago, I always had my students submit hand sketches as extra assignment.
Another thing CAD drafters seem to lack today is the ability to hand sketch properly and I see this in these posts when sketches are submitted. As a CAD instructor a few years ago, I always had my students submit hand sketches as extra assignment.
berkshire (Aeronautics) 1 Feb 12 18:34
11echo (Petroleum) ...Because If the engineer CAN produce a decent readable drawing, that is one step eliminated.
SO how many years of schooling have you had on drafting to produce this "readable dwg."??! I've been in this business over 30+ yr.s the ONLY engineers I've seen that can generate a "readable dwg." are draftsmen/designers that have moved into an engineering positions!
An engineer needs to multi-task on projects, and just focusing in on drafting is NOT an efficient/cost effective use of his time. This is WHY there is a design/drafting dept., this system has been around alot of years, and thinking you can "short-cut" the system and generate a better product is wishfully thinking!
11echo (Petroleum) ...Because If the engineer CAN produce a decent readable drawing, that is one step eliminated.
SO how many years of schooling have you had on drafting to produce this "readable dwg."??! I've been in this business over 30+ yr.s the ONLY engineers I've seen that can generate a "readable dwg." are draftsmen/designers that have moved into an engineering positions!
An engineer needs to multi-task on projects, and just focusing in on drafting is NOT an efficient/cost effective use of his time. This is WHY there is a design/drafting dept., this system has been around alot of years, and thinking you can "short-cut" the system and generate a better product is wishfully thinking!
I took "mechanical drawing" in HS, one semester of board drafting and one semester of Engineering Graphics during college freshman year. I had some drawing in the military. I have never had a job where I had to "draft" although back in the 'board' days when there was a large room full of drafters and designers workng at their boards doing my and my fellow engineer's drawings, it never ceased to amaze them when I could man an empty board and handle myself with a decent level of skill. It kept them honest - they knew I knew the difference. I still have all my tools although I think the tape is a little hard now as are the erasers.
Most of the young Engineers I work with are fairly CADD literate, some quite good, but engineers here don't draft or solid model, CADD operators and 3D modelers do. I don't know how to do CADD (short of opening a drawing and turning layers on/off) or model, but I do direct others as to what they CADD or model for the drawings I want produced.
I find it interesting however, that some of the younger guys seem amazed when whip out a hand sketch some part or some concert. They must not teach that any more? Every so often, I have to 'hand draft' something complicated to scale to show the modelers it can be done.
rmw
Most of the young Engineers I work with are fairly CADD literate, some quite good, but engineers here don't draft or solid model, CADD operators and 3D modelers do. I don't know how to do CADD (short of opening a drawing and turning layers on/off) or model, but I do direct others as to what they CADD or model for the drawings I want produced.
I find it interesting however, that some of the younger guys seem amazed when whip out a hand sketch some part or some concert. They must not teach that any more? Every so often, I have to 'hand draft' something complicated to scale to show the modelers it can be done.
rmw
ewh.... I agree. But, more to the point of this thread, if the person who calls themself an engineer can’t do drafting and sketching sufficiently well to express their thoughts and designs, so they can be built, maybe they are (their title is) a prime example of title inflation. Maybe they should more aptly be called formula and code cookbook manipulators, and let it go at that, they probably don’t know what they are cooking anyway.
rmw.... in your last para. “younger guys seem amazed when whip out a hand sketch some part or some concert.” If you whip out a really good concert on them, they will just be all the confuseder. They’ll come back to you the next day, scratching their head, and asking, how do you model sound in SolidWorks?
rmw.... in your last para. “younger guys seem amazed when whip out a hand sketch some part or some concert.” If you whip out a really good concert on them, they will just be all the confuseder. They’ll come back to you the next day, scratching their head, and asking, how do you model sound in SolidWorks?
- Thread starter
- #36
I'm sorry, when I meant drafting, i meant cad drafting, more specific, Solidworks. All the dimensions needed to make the assembly were there.
These were most of the corrections
- Putting sheet scale in title block when multiple scale views are present on the drawing. Does this always have to be there?
- measuring angles as 135 deg instead of 45 deg
- ballooning all parts in assembly drawing. Putting quantity next to balloon unless you only need 1 where you just put ref.
- lining up balloons in a straight line.
- underlining and centering main view notes.
- centerlines. I usually only put centerlines when I'm actually dimensioning the circle
- Typing "see detail ..." instead of "view detail ..." for your callout notes.
These were most of the corrections
- Putting sheet scale in title block when multiple scale views are present on the drawing. Does this always have to be there?
- measuring angles as 135 deg instead of 45 deg
- ballooning all parts in assembly drawing. Putting quantity next to balloon unless you only need 1 where you just put ref.
- lining up balloons in a straight line.
- underlining and centering main view notes.
- centerlines. I usually only put centerlines when I'm actually dimensioning the circle
- Typing "see detail ..." instead of "view detail ..." for your callout notes.
Yeah Dumpsta, kind of feel your pain. Remember that drafting is a "technology" and you have been trained as an "engineer". Two very different worlds. Engineering focuses on the mathematics applied to technology as a science, drafting is a trade.
I had your experiences back in the day. I remember my buddy's Dad who was the President of the Professional body for Engineering, Geophysics and Geology telling me never to turn down an opportunity to work in a machine shop. The experience gained will be three to one, one year of machining is three years of engineering! I'll never forget that.
So as an Junior Engineer, and having gotten fired for being generally an idiot, I managed to get into a machine shop. It opened my eyes, and introduced me to the trades. I applied my engineering degree to the oilfield industry and generally, fell in love with machining. So I went to the trades school and took the necessary courses to become certified as a machinist. I just wanted to understand the technology and improve my drafting abilities, figure out how to to look at the overall picture: concept, design, drafting, manufacturing, release to the field. My buddy's Dad was absolutely correct.
I have enjoyed unhindered employment in the last twenty-five years. I opened my own company, then added a machine shop facility to get around out sourcing and hire good, compentant machining talent. Consulting to the oilfield and having primary companies calling on you is the result of a lot of hard work.
So I recommend whole heartedly to never, ever turn down an opportunity to work in a machine shop. Keeping your eyes open and mouth shut, because there are more ways to solve a problem than just engineering and mathematics, is what I learned. Being able to converse with the trades, have an understanding of their wants and needs all will fall into place given due time.
Hang around the forums, listen to those with "white hair", and be open to the fact that maybe, just maybe we don't know it all. That would be a constructive step in the right direction.
Regards,
Cockroach
I had your experiences back in the day. I remember my buddy's Dad who was the President of the Professional body for Engineering, Geophysics and Geology telling me never to turn down an opportunity to work in a machine shop. The experience gained will be three to one, one year of machining is three years of engineering! I'll never forget that.
So as an Junior Engineer, and having gotten fired for being generally an idiot, I managed to get into a machine shop. It opened my eyes, and introduced me to the trades. I applied my engineering degree to the oilfield industry and generally, fell in love with machining. So I went to the trades school and took the necessary courses to become certified as a machinist. I just wanted to understand the technology and improve my drafting abilities, figure out how to to look at the overall picture: concept, design, drafting, manufacturing, release to the field. My buddy's Dad was absolutely correct.
I have enjoyed unhindered employment in the last twenty-five years. I opened my own company, then added a machine shop facility to get around out sourcing and hire good, compentant machining talent. Consulting to the oilfield and having primary companies calling on you is the result of a lot of hard work.
So I recommend whole heartedly to never, ever turn down an opportunity to work in a machine shop. Keeping your eyes open and mouth shut, because there are more ways to solve a problem than just engineering and mathematics, is what I learned. Being able to converse with the trades, have an understanding of their wants and needs all will fall into place given due time.
Hang around the forums, listen to those with "white hair", and be open to the fact that maybe, just maybe we don't know it all. That would be a constructive step in the right direction.
Regards,
Cockroach
Nice. but lol.
You don't have to go as far as the roach. But, one day try to build something you engineer with your drawings. Or, try to build your colleagues design from his drawings. You will learn a lot about good portrayal of design etc.
![[peace]](/data/assets/smilies/peace.gif "[peace] [peace]")
Fe (IronX32)
You don't have to go as far as the roach. But, one day try to build something you engineer with your drawings. Or, try to build your colleagues design from his drawings. You will learn a lot about good portrayal of design etc.
Fe (IronX32)
Lining up ballons? I deliberately misalign them so that they are clearly separate. Also stagger dimensions when they are stacked. More readable than perfectly aligned dimensions, especially in poor light or when smudged.
Your checker may disagree, but I once had a vendor compliment my drawings as "worthy of framing".
Your checker may disagree, but I once had a vendor compliment my drawings as "worthy of framing".
As for the first "correction" - ASME Y14.100M-1998
¶ 4.23.2 states: “The scale, or scales, to which drawings are prepared shall be indicated on the drawing.”
¶ 4.23.3 states: “…drawings not prepared to any scale, the word “NONE” shall be entered after “SCALE” in the space provided on the drawing format.”
Each item in an assembly drawing needs one (but only one) hard callout.
"SEE DETAIL" is correct because both "views" and "details" can exist on a drawing, making the use of "VIEW DETAIL" less than clear and concise.
The rest of the comments seem to be more about company style than industry standards, and I would think should be marked in a different color than the hard corrections. As for the centerlines, ask the checker to explain at what number of instances do you stop drawing them, or does every such feature get one regardless. What do you do with a drawing of a perforated sheet?
Technically, the glass is always full.
¶ 4.23.2 states: “The scale, or scales, to which drawings are prepared shall be indicated on the drawing.”
¶ 4.23.3 states: “…drawings not prepared to any scale, the word “NONE” shall be entered after “SCALE” in the space provided on the drawing format.”
Each item in an assembly drawing needs one (but only one) hard callout.
"SEE DETAIL" is correct because both "views" and "details" can exist on a drawing, making the use of "VIEW DETAIL" less than clear and concise.
The rest of the comments seem to be more about company style than industry standards, and I would think should be marked in a different color than the hard corrections. As for the centerlines, ask the checker to explain at what number of instances do you stop drawing them, or does every such feature get one regardless. What do you do with a drawing of a perforated sheet?
Technically, the glass is always full.
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