Mentioning engineering on a web page 1

[WARose]

I noticed on a company's web site today where they mention mechanical engineering as if it is a service they offer. But these people don't have a COA for the state(s) they operate in.....and they don't have a EOR as far as I can tell (unless he/she is outside the company).

Is that ethical? Or could that fall under the industrial exemption?

 

[phamENG]

In case you're interested in all the variations of IEs...Exemptions to Engineering Licensure Laws: A State-by-State Summary (2016)

 

[hendersdc]

For consumer products like phamENG's widgets there are also a huge number (and growing) of applicable design standards out there from DIN, IEC, SAE, CE, FCC, alphabet soup, etc. Medical devices also have to undergo extensive testing with everything being submitted to the FDA for approval prior to being legal to sell. The IE isn't a get out of jail free card, it just indicates that there are other ways of ensuring public safety in other industries that still have a significant effect on it but are covered by the IE.

A straight reading of WARose's quoted item (c) from GA would appear to cover any manufactured product, regardless of if public safety is involved or not. That seems awfully restrictive.

 

[CWB1]

Architectural firms are businesses. So you're saying that if I ONLY advertise to architectural firms, I don't need a license to practice structural engineering?

Yes. You don't need a license to sell to architectural firms so long as you're representing yourself honestly. Most will probably want you to be licensed so that you can stamp prints to satisfy the AHJ, but if they want you purely to support engineering analysis or other work then its not necessary. Engineering consultants and temp agencies do exactly that in every state and industry daily, some one-man-bands and others the $1B+ companies mentioned previously.

Ok how is public safety not involved if (for example) a guy working on/engineering a piece of equipment causes it to blow out and start a fire and a toxic chemical is released in the air? To me, it's fairly nebulous as to where the public safety ends and this applies.

How far down the rabbithole do you want to go? Your breathing removes oxygen from my ecosystem, should you not be allowed to live? Obviously balance must be achieved. Legal definitions of public safety generally rest on imminent, life-threatening danger to passers-by (IOW the public, not employees). Most industrial accidents statistically are only likely to hurt employees, not the public, so the govt has chosen to compromise by drawing the proverbial line at "public safety."

 

[phamENG]

CWB1 - that's not the case where I am. In Virginia, "the practice of engineering" is defined as follows:

The "practice of engineering" means any service wherein the principles and methods of engineering are applied to, but are not necessarily limited to, the following areas: consultation, investigation, evaluation, planning and design of public or private utilities, structures, machines, equipment, processes, transportation systems and work systems, including responsible administration of construction contracts. The term "practice of engineering" shall not include the service or maintenance of existing electrical or mechanical systems.

So what you're suggesting is absolutely the practice of engineering. If an EIT decided to pick up a side gig doing calcs for home designers or contractors, he/she would be in violation of the rules and subject to up to a $2,500 fine. Now, if a licensed architect wanted to hire an unlicensed engineer as an employee and seal their work, I could see that as being technically acceptable though ethically dubious if the architect doesn't know how to do it themselves.

 

[WARose]

How far down the rabbithole do you want to go? Your breathing removes oxygen from my ecosystem, should you not be allowed to live? Obviously balance must be achieved. Legal definitions of public safety generally rest on imminent, life-threatening danger to passers-by (IOW the public, not employees). Most industrial accidents statistically are only likely to hurt employees, not the public, so the govt has chosen to compromise by drawing the proverbial line at "public safety."

It's not a question of where I want to go....it's how nebulous the laws are in this regard. (And I didn't write them.)

 

[CWB1]

that's not the case where I am. In Virginia...If an EIT decided to pick up a side gig doing calcs for home designers or contractors, he/she would be in violation of the rules and subject to up to a $2,500 fine.

That's the same bad argument others have already tried, yet VA law is essentially a reword of every other state's. So long as the EIT isn't misrepresenting their status or experience (aka fraud) then they are perfectly legal. Suggesting that someone cant use a common title or perform low level design/analysis is ridiculous, contractors could hire anyone without a license to do the exact same thing.

 

[Fischstabchen]

Yes. This thread hits the nail on the head. I am going through this headache of registration and from the websites of firms I visit, I believe there is an insane number of firms that only register after lining up work.

 

[Enable]

Perhaps it is a tad different where CWB1 practices but phamENG's intuition is correct, at least for the Canadian jurisdiction I work in. And to me, it would be absolutely absurd to define "The Public" in the way CWB1 is suggesting it is; as nearly all firms providing engineering services wouldn't require a CofA.

Public is defined as (in Ontario): "...to be any person or corporation whom you have an arm's-length relationship. This may be a corporate client, a level of government, or an individual."

The whole it's okay if you and your client accepts it pertains to insurance, in at least some jurisdictions, but not the CofA.