Migrating to Canada or USA from Greece (Geological/Mining/Metallurgical Engineer) 1

[geov86]

Hello guys! I am really really glad to find this forum as I can see it represents a strong engineering community on the internet. I don't want to get you tired with many things so I am about to tell you my story in the short run, and I would kindly like your opinions regarding my issue.

I am a BSc(hons) Engineering Geologist specialized in Geotechnical Engineering and I have 4yrs of work experience as a consultant mainly in foundation engineering as well as in natural hazards (landslides, slope stability etc),and very few experience in tunneling. In addition,in a couple of years from now I am about to graduate from the National Technical University of Athens as a M.Eng Mining & Metallurgical Engineer (5yrs academic degree = BSc & integrated MSc) with specialization in Geoengineering & Metallurgy.

As most of you are aware (I think?), the situation in Greece has become unbearable,with zero prospects for engineers (basically for everyone!). For this reason, I decided to leave Greece,search for a job,and settle,abroad. Since two of my top choices are Canada and USA, I would like to ask you a couple of questions regarding engineering and engineering market there.
1) What's the possibility of getting geology or an engineering job before immigrating there, and without having to attend a MSc at a Canadian or US university in order to be seen more favorable from a possible employer?
2) How is the market in Canada or USA regarding geotechnical engineering,mining engineering, or geology? Good - bad prospects?
3) If I take the PE examinations and obtain the PE, does this change the way employers consider my resume and application, instead of just apply for a job without having this?

Thank you very much in advance for your opinions and for the kindness to reply to my post. Wish you all a wonderful day!

George

 

[IRstuff]

"making it more expensive to buy Greek goods"

What Greek goods? Their industrial production looks to have been less than 20% of GDP even before the recession. And, their total debt had been over 100% of GDP well before the recession. Seems to me that their utter dependence on tourism was a bigger issue.

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[hokie66]

Greece should have never joined the EU. While soccer is the national sport of most of those countries, in Greece it is tax evasion. Incompatible.

 

[DerbyLoco]

Greece has economic conditions that are statistically more sever than the Great Depression in the USA. The average citizen has been hit very hard and there is next to nothing they can do about it on an individual level so I can understand the bitterness.
Rather than North America or the EU why not consider Australia - they have completed 26 years of uninterrupted economic growth. However it may be difficult to emigrate as they have tightened up recently but my boss is emigrating this month as his engineering field is not restricted - I have not looked at civils though.
Don't dismiss the EU - Brexit has not happened yet and it's not all in the Euro zone. Why not look at the UK even if only temporally, (I still don't think we will leave - we will see what today's election brings)

 

[HamburgerHelper]

I don't understand why you have to devalue your currency to be competitive. Devaluing your currency basically means everyone paid in your currency takes an effective pay cut. Can't you have valuable currency and just reduce everyone's wages by a few percent or tax everyone more and subsidize exports?

 

[Murec]

George,

For coming to Canada, you should first look at the immigration process - do you qualify for the skilled immigrant category? Any form of sponsored immigrant? Are you coming with other family members?
As bad as it is in Alberta now, it could get better by the time (1-2 years) the it takes to complete the immigration process. Canada is a very large country with great differences between the provinces, almost like the EU. Look outside the big cities - Toronto, Vancouver - and you may find something suitable.

 

[Murec]

HamburgerHelper,

Devaluation changes prices only for exports (cheaper) and imports (more expensive). Pay drops relative to other countries, but the cost of local products drops also, so people don't feel it like a pay cut. This stimulates local production and exports.

 

[CWB1]

Yes, France created the euro, but undoubtedly the biggest benefactors economically have been the Germans.

Agreed. They successfully leveraged EU policies to destroy the UK and others' manufacturing sectors to protect their own and now have a very nice business relabeling third world goods as "made in Germany" and reselling them at 4000% markup stateside.

As for the OP, I unapologetically tend to lump folks into common "buckets" so apologies if this sounds silly, but given your geotechnical degree I would be curious if you couldn't find work in the US oilpatch. The industry has quite a few foreign vagabonds in it because of the relatively intense but short work cycles and big income potential so you may fit right in.

 

[Sparweb]

I don't have much advice for the OP, but I'd like to remind everyone to please stay on topic. Killjoy, I know...

What little advice I do have is to not take Canada as a "single entity". The economic prospects in Toronto are so dramatically different from the economic prospects in northern BC, for example, that your first search may be to identify regions of interest, rather than specific companies or industries to work for. People willing to work in remote areas also gain an advantage, sometimes.

STF

 

[epoisses_]

The EU is a great scapegoat. The Greek economy is more than anything else a result of decennia of mismanagement by successive Greek governments. The driving force behind the austerity measures are the international creditors including obviously Deutsche Bank, who would under no circumstances let go of their claims.
IMHO if the international creditors had been given the finger (just like Iceland did) -- in which case I guess the EU would have to be given the finger too, too bad -- Greek would have been able to start again from scratch and may have been in better shape already today.

Anyway.

Tip for Greek and other Mediterranean engineers: try the Netherlands, where the number of engineers has dropped 3 or 4-fold over the last 10 years or so. I see many Italians, Spanish and Latin American engineers over there. The Netherlands speak English, don't even bother with Dutch.

 

[geov86]

Wow! I didn't expect to set the conversation "on fire" with the EU staff!
Ok, let me give some real information because all the mainstream media are doing their "job" hiding the truth.
Greece in reality is under occupation by Germany, brussels, the french and german banks as well as the greek banks and bankers! Our governments and local elite are highly corrupted (basically are the most corrupted political personnel in modern history) and in close relations with Burssels and Germany applying every single demand Germany and its corporations have. Our governments have,for the favour of the EU and germans,given up the state's sovereignty, the privatized every single public structure (they even sold the FIR of Athens) in favour of germany and they fully violated the state's consitution!A very good example to see what's going on in Greece is the example of fraport! Fraport is a german (state owned) company and our current government sold to fraport 14 regional greek airports with the prospect that fraport would invest approximately 300million euros. Could you imagine what was our government's deal with fraport? Read! Fraport was actually created as a company by a german state, and with only 20,000 euros of capital our government gave them 14 regional airports, and in order for fraport to make the 300million euros investments it's going to borrow money from our banks (which the greek people recapitalized 4 times with their own money as they were bankrupted), and with warranties given by the greek state for fraport to manage to take the loans in a way that if fraport, in the future,doesn't care about having these airports anymore, all the debt from the management of the 14 regional airports will pass to the greek state and its citizens in order to be paid back. To make it more clear, the situation is like " You are broke because you gave to your friend some money. So you sell your home to me but I don't have the money to buy it right now so I borrow the money you gave to your friend (your money) and I buy your home (I still wonder which bank would be crazy enough to give me for example 1,000,000 euros loan if my monthly income is 150 euros and my only asset is a bicycle! - clearly a fraud!), but with your warranty, so, in case some years later I am not interested anymore having your home or something goes wrong for me and my profits, I will leave the house but you will be responsible to pay all the bills I didn't pay and all the debt I created during my stay there"!


Also, when I say human rights I mean every single human right in the world! They violated almost all of the human rights declared by the United Nations' treaties(there were two studies conducted in Greece by UN stating this), the treaties of the EU (european law), as well as the hellenic constitution (hellenic law), let alone that, based on the vienna treaty of the UN, they conduct genocide in Greece by imposing all of these (based on statistical measurements we reached 120,000 deaths more than births during 2016)! They even violated the right to life just to save the german and french banks!

Generally, what the world must understand is that Greece's problem is not only the austerity measures (these are the least)! The worst problem is the occupation that was deliberately imposed in Greece in order for Greece to lose all of its resources, and that they destroy and sell every single piece of greece!Greece,as a sovereign state,in terms of international law, does not exist anymore!It became a colony! I can talk hours about this issue, as there so many violations and corruption both by the EU and germany, as well as by the loval elite and our governments!They are countless!

 

[Bernoulli31]

Do like I did: find an American gal, fall in love, move to the US and marry her, and get a Green Card.

More seriously, why don't you try Europe? As an European you're free to go and work anywhere in the EU. Living in the US is not all it's cracked up to be, no offense meant.

I design aqueducts in a parallel universe.

 

[moltenmetal]

I'd suggest to the OP that if he is planning to come to Canada, or to the US for that matter, it might be best to unburden himself of the rather large and obvious chip on his shoulder in relation to perceived unfair treatment of his home country before he even steps onto the plane. Travelling light is usually a good recommendation, especially when it comes to baggage like that.

 

[CWB1]

I'd take the opposite view as I see no such chip, only honesty and personal experience. Despite what our soap-opera media says most folks stateside privately appreciate candor and see a certain nobility in appreciative folks moving here and assimilating for a better life. In the corporate world candor will get you promoted if used tactfully, most folks today are fearfully polite and tend to be "yes men" whereas the successful few walk a fine line between "nice guy" and "jerk."

I'd wager the OP would have crowds of folks interested in hearing his story in offices I've worked. OTOH, if he finds life in America "not what its cracked up to be" he'd best move home as friends and successes will be few and far between. Having lived on five continents before 30 I'll gladly stay here, others are welcome to live where theyre happiest.

 

[rotw]

With regard to CWB1 post,I think the challenge, (or the "art"), is to talk with candor, factually, but without denigrating. By the way, this is also a general statement - not connected to geov86's stance.

I would tend to say moltenmetal's approach is the best. Maybe just start on a new leaf... and make the best out of it (or out of your new welcoming country, whatever that is ).

 

[Bernoulli31]

I knew I'd hit a nerve somewhere.

I design aqueducts in a parallel universe.

 

[geov86]

I don't, by all means, want to go through as weirdo or somebody who believes that all of the world treats his country in an unfair manner. I just wrote an actual fact about my country and the situation that is on here because as far as I know from people I have abroad the message is "Greece has a debt, Greece owns money etc..".

The reason I don't try in Europe is because, in my opinion, EU will collapse sooner or later, and I'm afraid it will happen with a war! Things are pretty bad here in all over Europe!None of the EU member states apart from Germany does have normal and stable employment opportunities,and German industry in regards to Geotechnical is relatively small, let alone you have to know the language. One option would be England but apart from their current political crisis there (EU won't let Britain to exit the EU, they will try to overturn the British referendum), the living conditions there are not that suitable for me. Of course, if I have to, I would go to England but knowing that there's a chance for me to work for example in living conditions like California or Arizona (climate closer to what I'm used in) makes me feel better. Regarding to Canada the reason i want to work there is because of the welfare state and, generally, from what I've heard, is a really good place for having a family.

Also,of course when I get on the plane for another country, I'll stop any discussion about my country(except when I'll be asked about my opinion).I respect all countries along with their people, and I will offer my best to the country that will trust my knowledge and qualifications.

 

[Sparweb]

Geo,
Pessimism is rampant not only in the EU, but in the USA as well. Solution: move to Canada instead!
For our 150th birthday, we're giving ourselves a new pipeline to China.
We put oil in one end, they put money in the other. The 21st century belongs to Canada

STF

 

[geov86]

Sparweb thanks! Do you think I will have a future there? I have zero experience in the oil industry!

 

[Sparweb]

Geo,
Most of us came here as immigrants (not all of us, but most) if you just count back enough generations.
I truly do not know or understand the immigrant experience, so I humbly don't think I have any useful advice for you, but I can offer encouragement.
Neither am I well connected to any industry except aircraft, but I don't see why your experience (as you described in your first post) won't get some doors to open.
You will just have to do the work to make connections, use Linkedin and stuff like that, to find the places you want to go.
Want more insight into Canada and what's going on here? Read our news / listen to our radio stations - it's all on-line if you want it.
Want to travel here as a tourist to see if you like it? This year tourism is booming, because our dollar is low, so you'll have plenty of company.

STF

 

[DerbyLoco]

The OP is correct that the EU will not let the UK leave which is of immense relief to at least half of the population assuming that Mrs May is not stupid enough to go for a full Hard Bretix. With regards to not wanting to come to the UK because the sun does not shine as much as in California I think that a Canadian winter will come as a shock.
Germany does not have 'normal' employment due to the Works Councils that seem to have undue influence on what the employer can do as mine are finding out at the present time. (Try and shut a German plant regardless of how inefficient it is).
Going to any country because of the welfare state is something that would be best kept to ones self but I think that the UK has a better one than most other places judging by the numbers that come here to allegedly reap the benefits, (if only to die in a tragic high rise fire).
Finally I understand the OP's anger at the leadership and general treatment of his country and I wish both him and his compatriots a better future.