More firings? 11

[WARose]

Has anyone else noticed more out and out terminations/firings in the business? Use to be, they'd target people at layoff time (to avoid lawsuits)....now there is more and more straight up fired type releases.

What is really disturbing me in some of this is: I've seen some really sharp people getting canned over the years.....I suspect some of this is: a lot of companies are taking on the Mission Impossible type jobs.....and looking for someone to blame when it blows up in their face.

 

[tz101]

however when folks refuse to learn CAD or perform other basic engineering tasks necessary for their position, then I take offense.

Unfortunately, most companies I have seen over the years only perpetuate this with their mode of climbing the ladder. If you do CAD, you are labeled as "The CAD Guy", and that's where you will stay. Far too many companies are just a bastion of backstabbers waiting to climb the ladder by any means necessary. That often means avoiding CAD and/or any "menial" tasks. Much as I despise that, it does seem to be the overarching reality at many places.

 

[IRstuff]

Stories from the same company
> My first week, they had a "Welcome Onboard picnic/party at a nearby park on Wed; Friday, they laid off half the new employees, amongst others
> 4 years later, on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving, there was a notice of an all-hands meeting in another building. Upon arriving, there were three conference rooms; one that had a back door where you were escorted out, one for those that had a job until they finished their project, and one for those that were staying (semi-permanently).
> A year later, I've tendered my resignation, but the group VP calls me into his office and says I should stay on because they were offering an LBO and I'd get stock. But, how were they going to be become profitable enough to cash out my future stock if they couldn't turn a profit while they were still employees? I turned them down, since I'd already accepted another job.
> 3 months later, the LBO crashed and burned; the owners accepted a cash offer at half the value of the LBO. The owners finally wised up! ;-) (after losing (1980's) $1B a year for 7 years.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[MacGyverS2000]

Company meeting was called, but only certain people were invited. If you were invited, your new salary was 50% of previous, reduction of benefits, etc. If you weren't invited, you received a personal interview with HR shortly before they walked you out of the door. I showed up to the conference room meeting, sat in the far back corner per usual, and there were a lot of uncomfortable looks as they tried to get me out of there without saying anything damning.

I was working at a new place within a month, but for those who were "lucky" enough to stay, they eventually got back to 85% of their salary after 6 months, and were let go en-masse 6 months later as the company closed shop. I figure they lost the same amount of money as me after 2 months of working there (50% salary), so financially they were on the losing end of that deal.

I lost my pre-IPO purchase money, but the really annoying part was the IP (and I'm sure equipment, too) was sold back to the owners at pennies on the dollar so they could start the exact same company again less than a year later, with a slightly shortened name. I just checked, looks like that company is no longer alive, either. Disappointing on several levels, but in the grand scheme of things it was a good thing professionally.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[CWB1]

Nope. Some of mine have just come from standing up for myself whenever management goes off the rails with stupidity. I put up with bullying and BS from no one....I am agreeable, but only to the extent the directive given to me is reasonable and ethical.

Unfortunately, most companies I have seen over the years only perpetuate this with their mode of climbing the ladder. If you do CAD, you are labeled as "The CAD Guy", and that's where you will stay.

To each their own experience, mine has been limited to the corporate aerospace and automotive/ag/construction worlds, mostly in research. I have seen my share of unethical folks but never anyone asking others to be unethical, likely due to attorney-led annual ethics training being the norm. Bullying, attitudes, etc happen but that's the nature of engineering IME bc right or wrong, we debate different options daily, often none of which are good and ultimately a decision is made by management. Thin skins need not apply nor those easily upset by "bad" decisions. My job is to design the product within the parameters given, not to define what the "best" product is nor sell it.

As to CAD, IME if an engineer cannot design and analyze their own parts in today's world then they need to retire or find another field. Having designated "CAD guys" was 1990, a serious rarity today. Without a mastery of 2-3 modelers, FEA, and CFD an engineer isn't likely to be hired much less become a manager today.

 

[GregLocock]

Oddly we still have CAD designers (used to be draggers). They are on the same grade structure as engineers, but they don't do any formal analysis other than the better ones who do hand calcs. I've worked with some of them for 30 years. Most started as toolroom apprentices, so are very much aware of manufacturing.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[CWB1]

The big issue with having a separate CAD team isn't producing manufacturable parts, its simple efficiency. Not only do you end up with a ton of back & forth to tweak designs, but you also end up with a lot of parts that are overbuilt/expensive bc analysis isn't driving the design of much - cant afford to optimize every part bc they weren't optimized up front. Junior engineers and dummy moments aside, I dont see issues with manufacturing/DFMA too often bc tooling design is baked into the model. A toolmaker might tweak the design but ultimately an engineer should be creating cope/drag, dies, and other tool models to perform a casting/forging/other manufacturing sims before sending out a model for quote.

 

[GregLocock]

I don't think you know how we work.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[MrHershey]

Think the discussions in this thread have reinforced for me the notion that people really need to think defensively and try to find a company that really treats their employees well and sees them as assets to grow rather than cogs in a machine that can be easily discarded or swapped out when they're either not needed or don't perform to whatever expectations (good or not) that the company has for them. Talk to friends, talk to colleagues, consult glassdoor, pay attention to benefits and language during the recruitment process. Think it's easier to do this now than it's ever been. If you can't find a spot at a company that really takes care of its employees then focus on building your bank account or network or resume and plan to bail when you're satisfied with what you have or company is no longer to help you grow whatever you're trying to grow. And be prepared to be jettisoned whenever for any or no reason. Lifers are fewer and farther between now than they've ever been and that trend probably continues until the logical conclusion of everyone being in the gig economy and basically moving around from company to company as projects and market forces require.

 

[mfgenggear]

Quote "find a company that really treats their employees well and sees them as assets to grow rather than cogs in a machine that can be easily discarded"
very hard to find these day there is few out there, and those who have these jobs are not letting go.

 

[mfgenggear]

quote "The firings, particularly of "sharp people" who are likely older as well, is probably prelude to hiring a bunch of new grads who haven't found a home yet. Since this is a buyer's market, the new grads can be bought on the cheap."unquote

I seen a trend to hire younger less experience engineers because they cost less Overhead, EG less cost insurance, lower wage, more energetic to please, do more as they are ask, more demand for less, and are force to do more.

 

[IRstuff]

Exactly the reason I’ve told my kids that I will not pay for their college education if they go into engineering

Not sure why engineering is getting such a bad rap, given that one's kids could do worse by getting a degree in psychology, which gets them into the lowest paid majors section:

http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,2073703,00.html

I'm happy I'm an engineer, and both kids majored in computer science, which has one of the highest paying entry-level salaries for college grads. Anyone halfway decent in computer science will start off with about double the salary of a psychology bachelor.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
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[RVAmeche]

Whoever told you to not go into in comp sci in the early 2000's was incredibly short sighted.

 

[moltenmetal]

Engineering is still a good gig for some engineers currently practicing. It is still a good gig for the top 10% of the engineering graduating class, for the most part. It is however being sold as if it were "the new liberal arts education" by the engineering academy here in Canada, which makes me throw up in my mouth a bit every time I hear it said. The ever-increasing enrollments are cranking out grads at a rate the profession could never, ever, hope to use properly. That has changed very much during my 29 yrs since graduation.

As a volunteer who has been teaching a section of a 4th year chem eng water treatment course for the past 24 years, it makes me scratch my head why I'm bothering to teach the design of water treatment systems and equipment to a class which is no joke, 1/2 to 2/3 occupied by future management consultants, generalized "businesspeople", and SR&ED grant application writers.

Psychology likely wasn't their 2nd choice of major.

 

[CWB1]

Think the discussions in this thread have reinforced for me the notion that people really need to think defensively and try to find a company that really treats their employees well...Lifers are fewer and farther between now than they've ever been

Being a "lifer" today doesnt make financial sense, unless someone has a pension its in their best interest to job-hop and get their 401k out into the open market via an IRA to maximize returns. Retirement via individual investments in the past has been difficult enough, with the impending failure of SS its rather foolish to stay with one employer. It can also be career limiting, I've seen quite a few ~50 laid off and struggling to find work bc they lack a breadth of engineering knowledge as they have been in one desk at one employer for decades.

As to engineering being "crappy salary," not sure I'd call being in the top 10% of individual incomes in one of the wealthiest countries in the world within 5-10 years of graduation "crappy." OTOH, not sure I could take a parent seriously if they tried to hold the cost of an engineering degree over my head vs a life-changing decision, as if ~$30k (a car payment really) is an impossible investment for a kid to make. Liberal media gripes ignored as they should be, I know many who graduated with little or no debt while working part-time and taking classes full-time.

Computer science incomes really depend on the employer. If one can get into govt/military work then yes, it can be a highly rewarding field however in private industry its become severely overpopulated by the degree mills to the point that many companies have gotten away from requiring a degree in favor of specialty certificates. The last programmer I worked with made half of what I did, but was without a doubt significantly better at higher order math from optimizing the employer's clusters.