Eng-Tips is the largest engineering community on the Internet
Intelligent Work Forums for Engineering Professionals
Motor Testing Equipment 3
- Thread starter powerjunx
- Start date
-
1
- #2
I have used MCE (Motor Circuit Evaluator) by PdMA that is similar for off-line motor test.
The test approach is totally different.
Surge test will develop a high voltage-ringing wave through the winding impedance (signature) and will compare it to a known good sample. The test surge could destroy weak insulation.
Pro-31 will measure winding parameters like; resistance, capacitance, reactance, Insulation resistance and PI, then these parameters are evaluated and compared to those when the motor was original or new.
I should use Surge Test for production test and Pro-31 for maintenance evaluation purposes.
The test approach is totally different.
Surge test will develop a high voltage-ringing wave through the winding impedance (signature) and will compare it to a known good sample. The test surge could destroy weak insulation.
Pro-31 will measure winding parameters like; resistance, capacitance, reactance, Insulation resistance and PI, then these parameters are evaluated and compared to those when the motor was original or new.
I should use Surge Test for production test and Pro-31 for maintenance evaluation purposes.
-
1
- Thread starter
- #3
dgallagher
Mechanical
The AllTest Pro 31 is pretty simple to use. Primary tests include:
Impedance
Phase Angle
Current/Frequency Response (user-controlled)
Insulation Resistance
Automated Rotor Test
You may download a detailed data sheet on the instrument as well as the complete operations manual at:
Dave G.
Impedance
Phase Angle
Current/Frequency Response (user-controlled)
Insulation Resistance
Automated Rotor Test
You may download a detailed data sheet on the instrument as well as the complete operations manual at:
Dave G.
biggeorgetechnical
Electrical
billybry,
The tool you are asking about incorporates several measurement techniques into one box.
I'd like to mention that there are many additional motor test capabilities integrated into modern surge testers.
Newer surge tester boxes often incorporate: Kelvin Resistance Bridge, Meg-Ohm, Dielectric Absorption, PI, DC Step test, Continuous ramp test, and DC-High Potential test. There are big improvements in Surge test sensitivity. I guess what I'm saying is that there is a lot more capability in newer equipment.
Generally speaking, I believe comparing a battery of 4-5 other measurement techniques against a single other test (such as surge comparison) could be limiting your options.
George
The tool you are asking about incorporates several measurement techniques into one box.
I'd like to mention that there are many additional motor test capabilities integrated into modern surge testers.
Newer surge tester boxes often incorporate: Kelvin Resistance Bridge, Meg-Ohm, Dielectric Absorption, PI, DC Step test, Continuous ramp test, and DC-High Potential test. There are big improvements in Surge test sensitivity. I guess what I'm saying is that there is a lot more capability in newer equipment.
Generally speaking, I believe comparing a battery of 4-5 other measurement techniques against a single other test (such as surge comparison) could be limiting your options.
George
- Thread starter
- #7
aolalde
I already have 12 KV, 15 KV & 30 KV Baker surge testers with DC Hipot function. All 1994-2000 vintage. No major problems with them so far except local support is zero. I need to contact Germany for any issues.
I am on the lookout for a new surge tester with added test facilities like ac & dc hipot, resistance , IR & PI measurement.
Can you recommend some reliable and reputed manufacturers ?
Thanks.
I already have 12 KV, 15 KV & 30 KV Baker surge testers with DC Hipot function. All 1994-2000 vintage. No major problems with them so far except local support is zero. I need to contact Germany for any issues.
I am on the lookout for a new surge tester with added test facilities like ac & dc hipot, resistance , IR & PI measurement.
Can you recommend some reliable and reputed manufacturers ?
Thanks.
-
1
- #9
electricpete
Electrical
As far as I know, Baker and PJ Electronics are the only ones that make surge testers.
=====================================
Eng-tips forums: The best place on the web for engineering discussions.
=====================================
Eng-tips forums: The best place on the web for engineering discussions.
Edison.
I only know as Epete described PJ and Baker. We have used both mainly for surge test of new coils and windings according to IEEE STD 522, I don’t know the quality of their international support.
I only know as Epete described PJ and Baker. We have used both mainly for surge test of new coils and windings according to IEEE STD 522, I don’t know the quality of their international support.
aolalde
I just visited PJ site.
"PJ Testers are precisely engineered and hand crafted...
with quality commensurate to that of a Rolls Royce and
with performance commensurate to that of a Lamborghini.
"
"The best Surge Tester on the Market... just got better!"
Are their claims true or is it just hype ?
I just visited PJ site.
"PJ Testers are precisely engineered and hand crafted...
with quality commensurate to that of a Rolls Royce and
with performance commensurate to that of a Lamborghini.
"
"The best Surge Tester on the Market... just got better!"
Are their claims true or is it just hype ?
- Thread starter
- #13
I've been using Baker surge tester 12Kv and 30Kv as edison had. Unfortunately, service center is not available locally as well as technical support, though the name is popular.
ElectricPete is missing something, "Baker and PJ Electronics are the only ones that make surge testers"
Aside from Baker, I've been using "Electrom surge tester" particularly in field services,troubleshooting, condition monitoring and testing primarily due to its portability and diverse test capability.
ElectricPete is missing something, "Baker and PJ Electronics are the only ones that make surge testers"
Aside from Baker, I've been using "Electrom surge tester" particularly in field services,troubleshooting, condition monitoring and testing primarily due to its portability and diverse test capability.
biggeorgetechnical
Electrical
I have looked at the above links to BJM and Electrom websites. I feel compelled to post the link to the above mentioned Baker website. It looks like it has quite a bit of information on it regarding high potential testing, surge testing in general, as well as a series of documented case studies. Case studies are interesting in the sense that someone (besides the manufacturer) is willing to place their names and reputation on the equipment
It appears quite a bit of data regarding on-line monitoring and other new diagnostic techniques is posted as well.
It appears quite a bit of data regarding on-line monitoring and other new diagnostic techniques is posted as well.
- Thread starter
- #16
biggeorgetechnical
Electrical
billybry,
Back to the original thread, regarding advantages of AT31:
A gentleman I know works for a large Aluminum mill.
In his job there are 1000s of motors to be tested on a regular basis. He is very skilled, and well equipped with most (if not all) the brands mentioned in this thread.
He used the AT31 at length (for years) and was not impressed. Only found he was able to confirm shorted motors after they had tripped the breakers. He said he never once predicted a motor problem using the 31.
He gave up using it and went back to using various testers that could impress more than 500-1000V. These testers cost more money, but his finding was that he was getting value by being able to reduce down-time, his wasted time, and discovering motor and cable faults before they had progressed to short circuits.
I believe the AT tool is for you - if interested in reducing your time spent trouble shooting after a motor trips it's breaker to confirm failure. (Though all of the various 'expensive' testers work too) This can be a significant time saver, but being reactive, likely would not improve over-all plant productivity in any way.
If interested in pro-actively detecting weakness before process interruptions, (predictive maintenance) it may have serious limitations (i.e. 'don’t work as expected') in your environment.
My previous comment about modern surge testers (and other types of more pricey boxes) is they incorporate several added techniques, (instead of only one test) that allow greater sensitivity to impending motor problems/failures.
His opinion of the 31 was enough. Others may report different experiences.
George
Back to the original thread, regarding advantages of AT31:
A gentleman I know works for a large Aluminum mill.
In his job there are 1000s of motors to be tested on a regular basis. He is very skilled, and well equipped with most (if not all) the brands mentioned in this thread.
He used the AT31 at length (for years) and was not impressed. Only found he was able to confirm shorted motors after they had tripped the breakers. He said he never once predicted a motor problem using the 31.
He gave up using it and went back to using various testers that could impress more than 500-1000V. These testers cost more money, but his finding was that he was getting value by being able to reduce down-time, his wasted time, and discovering motor and cable faults before they had progressed to short circuits.
I believe the AT tool is for you - if interested in reducing your time spent trouble shooting after a motor trips it's breaker to confirm failure. (Though all of the various 'expensive' testers work too) This can be a significant time saver, but being reactive, likely would not improve over-all plant productivity in any way.
If interested in pro-actively detecting weakness before process interruptions, (predictive maintenance) it may have serious limitations (i.e. 'don’t work as expected') in your environment.
My previous comment about modern surge testers (and other types of more pricey boxes) is they incorporate several added techniques, (instead of only one test) that allow greater sensitivity to impending motor problems/failures.
His opinion of the 31 was enough. Others may report different experiences.
George
dgallagher
Mechanical
From AllTestPro literature:
Surge testing requires the application of high voltages and currents, and can be a destructive test, actually generating faults. This aspect, combined with the size of surge testing equipment makes it inappropriate for troubleshooting and predictive maintenance testing, especially on larger motors.
In a healthy 3-phase motor, the windings are electrically “balanced”. These balanced electrical characteristics include passive properties, such as resistance, and active properties, such as inductive reactance and impedance. As faults develop, one or more of these electrical properties will change, depending on the type and magnitude of the fault.
ALL-TEST instruments are unique in that they perform a series of impedance-based tests (inductance, phase angle, impedance, and a current / frequency ratio) on each winding. These measurements and their balance across the three phases provide a clear picture of the condition of the motor circuit. This test and analysis method will quickly indicate the presence of a fault, even at its earliest stages. The tests are preformed at low AC voltages, so there is no stress to the windings.
ALL-TEST methods are static measurements, meaning that they are made on un-energized motors. In this regard, they are useful not only for predictive maintenance activities, but also for checking new, recently repaired, or failed motors.
Surge testing requires the application of high voltages and currents, and can be a destructive test, actually generating faults. This aspect, combined with the size of surge testing equipment makes it inappropriate for troubleshooting and predictive maintenance testing, especially on larger motors.
In a healthy 3-phase motor, the windings are electrically “balanced”. These balanced electrical characteristics include passive properties, such as resistance, and active properties, such as inductive reactance and impedance. As faults develop, one or more of these electrical properties will change, depending on the type and magnitude of the fault.
ALL-TEST instruments are unique in that they perform a series of impedance-based tests (inductance, phase angle, impedance, and a current / frequency ratio) on each winding. These measurements and their balance across the three phases provide a clear picture of the condition of the motor circuit. This test and analysis method will quickly indicate the presence of a fault, even at its earliest stages. The tests are preformed at low AC voltages, so there is no stress to the windings.
ALL-TEST methods are static measurements, meaning that they are made on un-energized motors. In this regard, they are useful not only for predictive maintenance activities, but also for checking new, recently repaired, or failed motors.
- Thread starter
- #19
Thanks, gallagher likewise biggeorgetechnical.
Now, to consolidate all your views;
All Test PRO:
less expensive, handy, easy to set up, less winding stress, easy to interpret, good for troubleshooting, but less reliable for predictive maintance.
Surge Tester:
expensive(comes with different testing functions), bulky, easy to set up, high winding stress, difficulty data interpretation (for less experience oprator), good for newly rewind, but less reliable for predictive maintenance.
Any comments to add?
thanks,
billy
Now, to consolidate all your views;
All Test PRO:
less expensive, handy, easy to set up, less winding stress, easy to interpret, good for troubleshooting, but less reliable for predictive maintance.
Surge Tester:
expensive(comes with different testing functions), bulky, easy to set up, high winding stress, difficulty data interpretation (for less experience oprator), good for newly rewind, but less reliable for predictive maintenance.
Any comments to add?
thanks,
billy
- Status
Similar threads
