Moving clouds

[cdafd]

So this question, and wonder if there is an answer.

have an auditorium ceiling cloud that moves 39 feet up and down and requires fire protection.


The auditorium is approximately 6400 square feet total. There are 9 clouds over the seating area ranging in size from approximately 9' x 9' to one that is approximately 35' x 18'. These are not square but unique shapes. The panels move up and down for acoustical purposes from 43' down to 29'-6" and then can be lowered down to 4' for maintenance purposes. The panels are also wood finish combustible material.

The clouds can be raised to within 2' of the ceiling

 

[Cidona]

Haven't done one myself but initial thought would to see if possible to apply NFPA 13 2013 Section 22.19 (leads to NFPA 140)? Loosely put would mean EH2.

 

[stookeyfpe]

The 2016 edition of NFPA 13 has a new section that addresses sprinkler spacing for cloud ceilings.

 

[TravisMack]

I think it is not so much that it is a "cloud," but that the elevation is not fixed and can be changed based on the needs at any given time. You would not be able to put a sprinkler under it and meet criteria. I have yet to run into these, but I am very interested in how it comes out, as I am sure we will see these in the future on projects.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

"Follow" us at

https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692

 

[MatthewJWillis]

It seems the Arch's got tired of us putting sprinklers in them and made them moving targets.

I am interested as well. For the interim, I feel this may be "Outside the scope" and will require ,Performance Engineering.

R/
Matt

 

[cdafd]

Maybe just go San Antonio on them;;;;

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JSdE631guAk

Bring out the big guns

 

[chicopee]

For stage curtains, the treatment with a fire retardant is normally a legal requirement. Have you checked on clear fire retardant coatings for your wood ceiling clouds?

 

[cdafd]

Chicopee

Not my problem, just saw the question and was wondering if anyone had a solution.

These I take are horizontal obstruction with measurements between

"""have an auditorium ceiling cloud that moves 39 feet up and down and requires fire protection.


The auditorium is approximately 6400 square feet total. There are 9 clouds over the seating area ranging in size from approximately 9' x 9' to one that is approximately 35' x 18'. These are not square but unique shapes. The panels move up and down for acoustical purposes from 43' down to 29'-6" and then can be lowered down to 4' for maintenance purposes. The panels are also wood finish combustible material.

The clouds can be raised to within 2' of the ceiling"""

 

[MatthewJWillis]

I like the suggestion of Cidona, however the wording appears dangerous in that it says the Building sprinkler system. Could be leaning toward throughout? Not likely, but stranger things have happened.

I am sticking with performance based, however that section could be used as a basis. We all know the fire is contained, not out, and we don't have to get water ON the burning item, just rob it's ability to produce.

R/
Matt

 

[MGXFP]

Sounds like fun.

Maybe a deluge to make sure everything gets wet and limit the spread of fire and smoke? I could see using braided separations to handle small movements but 39' is too great a vertical distance to maintain fire sprinklers as we currently practice it. Also there would be no way to fasten it to building structure per chapter 9 of NFPA 13.

These goofy ceilings usually take precedence over fire protection practices; good or bad.

 

[MatthewJWillis]

What is this word "usually" applied here???

 

[MGXFP]

OK, fine. "Always"

 

[chicopee]

I don't ever recall stages with fire protection which was the reason to have stage curtains treated with a fire retardant.

 

[Jon.M]

You could argue that "NFPA 13, 2013, section 8.5.5.3.2 Sprinklers shall not be required under obstructions
that are not fixed in place, such as conference tables." could apply to this situation, but a giant leap away from the (probable) intent. This is an interesting exercise at least, you could end up asking for a Formal and/or informal Interpretation through NFPA/AFSA.

 

[MatthewJWillis]

I am finishing a large theater right this minute. My clouds are fixed. The technical name is acoustical panels. But NFPA calls them clouds. These are used in conjunction with acoustical curtains.
I moved / added sprinklers a few weeks ago because the acoustic calculations would not support them being lower than a few inches from the deck to route my measly 1¼" pipe. So acoustical dynamics is added to the list of priority items over life safety.

Having said that, this example I believe cannot be protected per 13. I know it cannot. It will need an "equivalent" level of protection, with lots of signature from folks more important then me. Interestingly, reflecting on deluge seems plausible.
Or to go even further outside the box, I liked the "Grate" sprinklers when they came out for hangers. If we cannot fight them from above, we go under.

Just some mental exercise with coffee this am...

R/
Matt

 

[chicopee]

Just for curiosity, what is the composition of these acoustical panels? Hopefully they are not of a combustible material.