I work in the electric utility industry on the generation side. I have been in engineering for the past 3.5 years since I graduated college. At some point I would like to move up into supervision/management. What kind of qualities do managers in this kind of industry look for when seeking to promote an engineer into management? From what I have seen it has little to do with being very good at the nuts and bolts end of engineering. A lot of it seems to be about one's perception of that individual. At this point I am not sure if I am on the radar for promotion to management or if I will be put on the subject matter expert track because of the nature of my work (steam turbine outages).
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Moving up into management 1
- Thread starter knight185
- Start date
You're an engineer, right?
Normal path is that you gradually make more money as you gradually pay down your debts. Eventually, you reach a point where you have no more debt.
Getting back to the topic. In all honesty the best way I've seen to get into (corporate) management is to:
-suck up to your bosses
-as ivymike pointed out, be better at being nice and helping people than your job
-be prepared to step on people that you probably get along with
Either way, good luck.
V
Normal path is that you gradually make more money as you gradually pay down your debts. Eventually, you reach a point where you have no more debt.
Getting back to the topic. In all honesty the best way I've seen to get into (corporate) management is to:
-suck up to your bosses
-as ivymike pointed out, be better at being nice and helping people than your job
-be prepared to step on people that you probably get along with
Either way, good luck.
V
Just remember, the people you meet (step on?) on the way up may be the same folks you meet on the way down.
Posting guidelines faq731-376 (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484
ornerynorsk
Industrial
Knight, looks like you already defined your solutions. Hang in there. Freedom from debt is neither a quick process, nor an easy one. If you truly love your spouse, don't let bitterness take hold by identifying him/her (sorry to be so PC, but I don't believe you ever identified yourself as male or female)as the reason for tight finances. Hopefully you are both on the same page for long term financial goals.
It has taken my wife and I 20 years, but we have experienced a 40-fold improvement in our finances. Its not that we are extremely wealthy now, I just had enormous debt and zero assets when we were married. We drove a lovely excrement brown 1977 Pontiac station wagon, that we picked up for $200, for the first several years, and lived in a small house that should have been renovated a century earlier. At that time I was working blue collar making less than 15,000/year, no bull.
It takes time and patience. If you have decent skills and a willingness to work, which it definitely sounds like you do, you'll do fine.
It has taken my wife and I 20 years, but we have experienced a 40-fold improvement in our finances. Its not that we are extremely wealthy now, I just had enormous debt and zero assets when we were married. We drove a lovely excrement brown 1977 Pontiac station wagon, that we picked up for $200, for the first several years, and lived in a small house that should have been renovated a century earlier. At that time I was working blue collar making less than 15,000/year, no bull.
It takes time and patience. If you have decent skills and a willingness to work, which it definitely sounds like you do, you'll do fine.
- Thread starter
- #24
Marriage is definitely tough when dealing with the money issues. Although my wife is not personally the cause of certain debts, we both acknowledge that the debts would not exist if we had not gotten married or had a child. I am able to pay all of my main bills, but I can't make significant reductions in credit debt, I can't save for a rainy day fund, etc. And at some point in the near future I am going to have to pay for my wife's mountain of school loans for which she has no degree to show for it, and I already pay $500/month for my own.
Besides credit debt, transportation is a big one. I drive so many miles per year...over 35,000 just to get to work. My job has been moving me around quite a bit, so until I get a permanent assignment my commute is 120 miles per day.
Besides credit debt, transportation is a big one. I drive so many miles per year...over 35,000 just to get to work. My job has been moving me around quite a bit, so until I get a permanent assignment my commute is 120 miles per day.
Are you participating in any 401K savings plans? These are before-tax, and some employers match contributions at some percentage. All-in-all, a good deal, and a good way to lock out spending. Additionally, it'll potentially provide your main means of support for retirement, since Social Security is pretty much at the poverty level.
Frugality is a discipline thing, and I'm certainly no exemplar of that, but there are teachers that can retire with a half-million in savings, so that's something that nearly every engineer should be able to achieve.
Even if there is no 401K, some sort of payroll savings deduction will remove money from the spending pool.
TTFN
FAQ731-376
Frugality is a discipline thing, and I'm certainly no exemplar of that, but there are teachers that can retire with a half-million in savings, so that's something that nearly every engineer should be able to achieve.
Even if there is no 401K, some sort of payroll savings deduction will remove money from the spending pool.
TTFN
FAQ731-376
stanford94
Mechanical
moving "up" into management? i would say "down"....move on up if you're ready to quit engineering...
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1
- #28
To all: A very interesting discussion and I think all aspects have been mentioned.
At the end of the day there is no golden rule apart from the fact that you must be what you are and not change your personality to make career. You can act like an actor for a week or a month but not forever. Keep that always in mind! If your bosses do not see you as a manager, you will be in the wrong company. Managers (your bosses) are humans, too. They have their own personality and their thinking is most probably different from yours. They expect certain things from a manager candidate and you might not meet that. That is no problem because it does not mean they are right and you are wrong. It is all about humans, beleive me. I never asked for a promotion in my life and got a few because I was lucky with the people (humans) in the higher positions. It is o.k. that you think of your life, your wife and the future. And it is o.k. that you think about money. But don't let only the money ever guide your personal decisions.
At the end of the day there is no golden rule apart from the fact that you must be what you are and not change your personality to make career. You can act like an actor for a week or a month but not forever. Keep that always in mind! If your bosses do not see you as a manager, you will be in the wrong company. Managers (your bosses) are humans, too. They have their own personality and their thinking is most probably different from yours. They expect certain things from a manager candidate and you might not meet that. That is no problem because it does not mean they are right and you are wrong. It is all about humans, beleive me. I never asked for a promotion in my life and got a few because I was lucky with the people (humans) in the higher positions. It is o.k. that you think of your life, your wife and the future. And it is o.k. that you think about money. But don't let only the money ever guide your personal decisions.
Micalbirch - thanks for reinforcing something that been really getting me down lately. I made a career change close to a year ago from a salaried position, to being the lead person for a small office startup, and I've gotten quite depressed over the last few months as the workload always seems to increase, with not enough bodies to delegate to, and my personality, I've learned, is just not the right one to be dealing with Clients and the whole deal-making, getting screwed on fees and scope creep, administration, being the technical leader, being my own HR Dept., trying to find new hires, dealing with Partners, trying to do proposals and meet all the deadlines, constant manipulation and criticism (from both Clients and Partners) etc.
I can't act, and I wear my heart on my sleeve, and I know I'm getting the few staff I have down, since I'm getting more frustrated every day with the situation and regretting making this move. The things that bothered me at the salaried position now seem trivial in hindsight, compared to the 60 hour weeks, working weekends, and the effect on my family life. Oh yeah- and for no additional income, but the promise of a bonus IF the company makes a profit this year.
The challenge I have is to try to get someone into the office that I can pass the work onto, so I can get out of the business environment I've found myself in. I have too much concern for the Projects and Clients and don't want to leave things in the middle of project delivery, and leave the mess for the other people to clean up.
I may be a very good technical engineer with a lot of practical experience, but when it comes to "management", I now know my limitations.
I can't act, and I wear my heart on my sleeve, and I know I'm getting the few staff I have down, since I'm getting more frustrated every day with the situation and regretting making this move. The things that bothered me at the salaried position now seem trivial in hindsight, compared to the 60 hour weeks, working weekends, and the effect on my family life. Oh yeah- and for no additional income, but the promise of a bonus IF the company makes a profit this year.
The challenge I have is to try to get someone into the office that I can pass the work onto, so I can get out of the business environment I've found myself in. I have too much concern for the Projects and Clients and don't want to leave things in the middle of project delivery, and leave the mess for the other people to clean up.
I may be a very good technical engineer with a lot of practical experience, but when it comes to "management", I now know my limitations.
Sorry to hear that. I was lucky in that I was given relatively simple responsibilities that demonstrated that I had basically zero interest in management. At some point in time, you may have to simply "let go" and a start of that might be to let your superiors know that you're looking for something more technical, assuming that you have some level of rapport with them. If nothing else, a cry for help might actually garner some results, like some actual help.
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FAQ731-376
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FAQ731-376
- Thread starter
- #31
Money is a weird thing. Since I have started working in 2006 my salary has increased by $12,000 but with the added burden of marriage, becoming a parent, and a variety of other things, I am not able to provide for my family the way I would like to. Yes, I am fortunate to have a job that pays for my rent, school loans, a car for me, a car for my wife, food, etc. However, it is not enough for create a happy home. The limitations of the money that is leftover after bills are paid has created a lot of strain in the marriage. 1. I don't have any peace of mind and 2. My wife can't have all of the perks and material things that she thinks a wife is entitled to.
I like my job but it can also be stressful and require me to work 12 hours per day, 7 days per week like I am right now and not provide any additional financial benefit. If I am going to spend most of my time at work and deal with the mental stress, I might as well find a job that will pay well enough. However, one has to be careful not to increase the cost of one's lifestyle whenever their salary increases.
I like my job but it can also be stressful and require me to work 12 hours per day, 7 days per week like I am right now and not provide any additional financial benefit. If I am going to spend most of my time at work and deal with the mental stress, I might as well find a job that will pay well enough. However, one has to be careful not to increase the cost of one's lifestyle whenever their salary increases.
- Thread starter
- #32
If I were to become a manager right now I think being able to delegate responsibility would be hard because I would not be comfortable relying on 9 out of 10 people that work at my job location. It is pretty bad at other plants. I am seeing that there are a lot of people that don't care about doing a good job and therefore are lazy and there are others who are decent people but don't put forth much effort to do much. Also, the relationship between plant management, the maintenance foremen, and the union mechanics is terrible. As a result many of the mechanics are lazy and the foremen won't do anything about it. And even if the foremen was serious about doing a good job, the union guys can be lazy all they want because they will never get fired. As an engineer and project manager I don't have direct supervision of the maintenance crew but the success of my project will in a large part be determined by the quality and speed of work that the mechanics do, and these mechanics have no incentive to work hard for anybody.
That is the crux of being a manager; You must remove obstacles from your subordinates' path to achieving their goals, but you must also motivate them, which is often a nontrivial matter. Part of the motivation aspect is to know your people, i.e., what makes each particular person tick. There may be simple, cheap, perks that mean a lot to some people. Motivation and morale are often infectious, so getting a critical mass sufficiently motivated might be enough.
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FAQ731-376
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FAQ731-376
knight185
My perspective come from having been managed and mismanged as an engineer. I've done some small project management, but I'm still learning and growing technically. So take it with a grain of salt.
To move up within a company or in a career you NEED to develop your soft skills, period. I don't think you need to put aside your technical knowledge though. See post:
The key to getting ahead is not technical..
thread731-190566
I also feel the anti-management culture of engineers is based in some reality. I read a post somewhere that spoke about how smaller projects being farmed out to service companies in the oil&gas industry has created a shortage of good engineers. Why? because young engineers out of college got to work on small stuff and learn the ropes, even if it wasn't profitable. You trained your staff.
Try an learn all the angles. Just as we are not fond of management, we are loathed by many hands-on field people. The field is a great place to learn foundations for technical and non-technical management. As they said in Full Metal Jacket "Get in the S^%T". This way you can make good evaluations on a true projects costs.
On the other side of the spectrum learn the business lingo, wheather you get an MBA or not. There's always Barnes and Noble, and a secret place which holdes arcane knowledge.........The LIBRARY. If you do get an MBA, go for a technical MBA or with an Idustrial Engineering Degree.
As for wealth and rising the ladder I think it takes a long term view 3.5 years is nothing. Get your PE, get active, move arround 2-5 years withing the company, and sell yourself. If loud mouths can do it with no substance, you can do it with substance.
Good Luck!
My perspective come from having been managed and mismanged as an engineer. I've done some small project management, but I'm still learning and growing technically. So take it with a grain of salt.
To move up within a company or in a career you NEED to develop your soft skills, period. I don't think you need to put aside your technical knowledge though. See post:
The key to getting ahead is not technical..
thread731-190566
I also feel the anti-management culture of engineers is based in some reality. I read a post somewhere that spoke about how smaller projects being farmed out to service companies in the oil&gas industry has created a shortage of good engineers. Why? because young engineers out of college got to work on small stuff and learn the ropes, even if it wasn't profitable. You trained your staff.
Try an learn all the angles. Just as we are not fond of management, we are loathed by many hands-on field people. The field is a great place to learn foundations for technical and non-technical management. As they said in Full Metal Jacket "Get in the S^%T". This way you can make good evaluations on a true projects costs.
On the other side of the spectrum learn the business lingo, wheather you get an MBA or not. There's always Barnes and Noble, and a secret place which holdes arcane knowledge.........The LIBRARY. If you do get an MBA, go for a technical MBA or with an Idustrial Engineering Degree.
As for wealth and rising the ladder I think it takes a long term view 3.5 years is nothing. Get your PE, get active, move arround 2-5 years withing the company, and sell yourself. If loud mouths can do it with no substance, you can do it with substance.
Good Luck!
- Thread starter
- #35
I think I am on the right path. In 2008 I managed a project with no technical background on the equipment and relied on field engineers to handle those details while I focused on the scheduling, budget, coordination of contractors, shipping parts to repair shops, submitting reqs for new parts, etc. On my current project I am not the primary PM so I have been able to be out in the field more actually watching how the equipment is disassembled and put back together.
See that stuff is golden experience. Keep a good record of your knowledge for reference, pe experience, and as a portfollio. Be patient. Keep growing. Keep-on contributing and you'll gett back more and more.
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