MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT) 2

[joe79]

Rant warning.

I'm applying for jobs, mostly in aerospace structural analysis, and it seems like I can't even get an interview since I don't have experience using NASTRAN, PATRAN or ANSYS, etc. The thing that really burns is that I have experience writing finite element analysis applications FROM SCRATCH, I have experience with other FEA packages, I have a B.S. and an M.S. from top-notch programs in structures and mechanics and for the past year I've been doing FEA without the help of a GUI (mesh generation algorithms, in-house FEA solvers, data visualization software, etc.). All the employers care about is if you've been using certain black boxes for umpteen years...

When I talk to recruiters they go "do you know NASTRAN? No? Hmm..."

The funny thing is is that I was being considered on the development side of certain FEA tools. But that brings me to my second problem...I don't have experience with C++, only C/C+.

Does this mean that I'm likely to be considered only at entry level if considered at all?

I appreciate any help. Thanks for taking the time to read this frustrated engineer's rant.

 

[GregLocock]

Shrugs. I used to write wavefront optimisers. That doesn't mean I'd be much good as a node-pusher.




Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[GregLocock]

In fact I'll just push the analogy a bit further. The blacksmith who made Michalengelo's chisels wouldn't have been much chop as a sculptor.




Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[SomptingGuy]

"I don't have experience with C++, only C/C+"

What's C+?

Anyway, to get anywhere interesting in this business (i.e. not a mesh monkey/node pusher/etc), you will need to know FORTRAN, scripting languages (pthon, perl, etc) and probably have some decent real-life experience of a commercial FEA solver.

- Steve

 

[joe79]

Forget the +, just C.

Everything I've been doing for the past 16 months has been in FORTRAN90 (MS Visual Studio), and C Shell scripts...but no python or perl unfortunately.

So FORTRAN experience is still valuable?

It sounds like going into structural analysis full time is a bad thing: 'node pusher/mesh monkey'. Is that what you guys think?

All I really want to do is program. I don't like structural design. I should have majored in computer science.

 

[SnTMan]

joe79, all your experience just confuses HR, but they can understand "Do you know NASTRAN?"

Sympathize with your rant, in my field it's solid modellers. "Must have X years with package Y." No mention of actual engineering skills.

Regards,

Mike

 

[SomptingGuy]

joe79,

Fortran experience is still valuable in FEA land. If nothing else it helps you to understand how these monoliths work. And believe it or not, many FEA coders are still using Fortran ... out of choice too (!!).

If you really want to program, look for work with one of the FEA providers. Where are you based?

- Steve

 

[GregLocock]

Node pushers and mesh monkeys? Not very polite, but I can think of at least one FEA analyst who still gets new jobs (quite frequently, not much to my surprise) whose main ability could be described as "identifying red elements on the mesh quality display and patching the mesh".

My guess is that you (or your agents) are applying to companies full of end-users, you need to be applying to the software houses themselves. Even big companies like Ford have pretty much stopped developing FEA or pre and post processor code themselves, partly because macro-ing has got so much easier.



Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[joe79]

SomptingGuy,

I'm in Los Angeles, but I will relocate just about anywhere that's decent. I'm all about the work.

Actually I wouldn't mind getting out of L.A. It's so expensive and traffic's unbelievable.

-Joe

 

[SomptingGuy]

If you really are mobile, why not wave your CV/resume under MSC's corporate nose(s)? They've taken over EASY5 (Seattle, WA) & ADAMS (Ann Arbor, MI) in recent years, so there's more to their portfolio than straight FEA, and a diversity of locations.

- Steve

 

[gwolf2]

joe79,

I sympathise with your problem, I had exactly the same trouble 10 years ago and I had 9 years commercial FORTRAN FEM programming under my belt!! With no C++ or Python (or similar) programming and no PATRAN/NASTRAN under my belt it was hard to find a new job.

Competition for FEA programming jobs is fierce at the top notch companies in the USA. Unless you are world class they are not interested. You have to be realistic about your abilities on the world stage. I would advise against working for FEA companies outside the top 5.

I took a very junior end-user job, got the magic words on my CV, quickly switched to contracting and haven't looked back since. These days I even get to do programming sometimes and specialise in high complexity FE to trouble shoot expensive problems. I still take mesh monkey jobs and hand calc jobs inbetween interesting contracts - you can't afford to be too fussy.

It's not so bad, good luck.

gwolf

 

[SylvestreW]

Not that I'm advocating outright lying, but if you are truly skilled and believe that coming up to speed on an interface is trivial, then what's your compunction with stretching the truth.

For one job I applied for, I didn't know Fluent but knew quite a few other CFD programs, and didn't have too much issue getting past HR. When it came to talking with the engineers, I was blunt in stating what I was and wasn't capable of (i.e. could learn a package quickly etc.)

-
Syl.

 

[ivymike]

how about taking a junior college course on one of those packages, then saying (truthfully) that you've used it?

 

[joe79]

do you think having 2 years experience with one company, then 1 year with another, then looking for a new job makes me look bad?

 

[MJCronin]

Joe...

I think that you, and everyone who reads this thread must realize that somehow in this millenia HR has unfortunately become a "profession" and therefore a hurdle to be either jumped or somehow avoided.

Most HR people (and MBA managers) have no idea what finite element analysis is......they only understand the duty to "ask the NASTRAN question" and check it off as "yes or no" on the employee assesment form.

Somehow...you must get to those who make real decisions.

Mesh monkeys and node pushers must pay their bills also.

Don't be afraid to lie or deceive....the MBAs will do it to you too

My opinions only

-MJC

 

[GregLocock]

So why bag the HR droid, when the person who wrote the original requirement specified NASTRAN?

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[SomptingGuy]

True. We always specify and then approve all job adverts. We then get all the incoming CVs to study. I don't think HR get involved at all until we've decided that we want the person.

- Steve

 

[Tomfh]

Just say yes to whatever skills they ask for, then learn them before the job starts.

 

[joe79]

Has anyone here switched from civil structures to aerospace structures? I want to get away from civil design because it didn't seem technical enough.

 

[EddyC]

joe,

I suggest that you get yourself a demo version of Nastran. Its usually free or available for a minor fee. You should be able to learn it with the help of the user manuals, which you can print out from the supplied disks. You already know how to use FEA. Now you just need to tailor yourself to the peculiarities of NASTRAN. You can probably learn it well enough in about a month. I had used STAAD in the past and was able to transition into NASTRAN rapidly.

I would also suggest that you pick up a copy of Analysis & Design of Flight Vehicle Structures by Bruhn (You will need to get it used).

My boss is an ex-aerostructures guy. He has personally observed several folks transition from civil to aero structures. He says that the main challenge for the civil folks is that they are too used to relying on "packaged" design methodologies. Good Luck to You.