NCEES record system 2

[TehMightyEngineer]

This will be a long post, tl;dr: if you had an NCEES record and want to use it to quickly apply to a state then good luck getting it updated quickly. For those who don't have a record yet but want one just know that the new system is fairly improved over the old one.

A little less than a year ago I decided to get an NCEES record as my old boss and a few of my references took a long time to get me references for my original PE license. I had a number of New England states I'd be working in so figured I'd get a bunch of licenses using the NCEES record and save the time of waiting for my references, transcript, and so on to be collected and submitted. Essentially NCEES records promised ease of application and expediency. For others I understand it's also used to keep records of employment, experience, and references from many years ago as well. In short, it's one big selling point is they keep your records for you so you don't have to worry if you suddenly need a quick license in a new state.

Well, about two months ago I decided to apply to a state that thankfully I have no pressing need to work in yet but wanted to get out of the way. I was getting ready to transmit my NCEES record (which was less than a year old) and got an email that said this (copied 100% from the email, not paraphrased):

The NCEES Records Program will be unavailable June 11–19 for system enhancements. You will not be able to access your account during this time. As a reminder, all upcoming transmittal requests must be submitted no later than June 10.

Thank you for your patience as we work to bring you a new and improved system.

When I went to my records page I saw this:

So, system enhancements, huh? Sounds good right, I'm not concerned as it clearly states "Transmittal requests can be submitted through the new system after June 20th". This, to me, says that the records are all 100% fine and they're just updating the interface, software, or other systems for the records program. Good, it needed it. I entirely did not expect that I would be unable to send a record until I resubmitted half of my record to NCEES again.

After it came back online I got this message: "Existing Record holders and Credentials Evaluation customers need to link their legacy accounts to migrate their information into the new system." Okay, I'll do that. After that your NCEES account dashboard page will show a "purchase transmittal" button... That's it.

YOU HAVE TO PURCHASE TRANSMITTAL TO A STATE TO EVEN GET THE PROCESS STARTED! WHY NCEES?! DO YOU THINK WE LIKE JUST APPLYING TO RANDOM STATES? WHY CAN'T I SETUP MY ACCOUNT AHEAD OF TIME!?

Well, for me this doesn't matter much I'm applying to a non-critical state already so it's no bother. I purchase transmittal, painless process enough, and then it will give you a notification that your account it being transferred from the old record system. So, what the heck did linking my account do? I wait about 2 weeks or so and then get impatient and think something went wrong. I use NCEES's chat feature... WHAT!? THIS PROCESS TAKES 2-3 WEEKS TO COMPLETE!? That's the response I got from NCEES; it's up to 3 weeks to "link" your account. Maybe this will speed up over time but this is unacceptable as is; and I'm just getting started.

After my account is finally transferred I'm presented with this (only with a lot more whited out):

My personal information and education information were uploaded and correct; so that's all good. However, "exam and license verification", "work experience", "professional references", and "time gaps". Were all whited out.

The biggest is references. It took me 6 weeks to get all my references to respond. One was so busy that I kept having to rudely bug him for references (this was after getting a work experience document, and getting a reference a year ago for the original record). Two references didn't get the email, it went to their SPAM folders. One I typed in their name wrong and changing their name requires you to resend the email. Finally, one never even responded so I had to scrounge old work contacts for a reference. You know what NCEES said about this on their Facebook page to another engineer?

Jo, we understand your frustration. No one likes to have to update information that they’ve already entered, especially if it was done fairly recently.

There is a reason that we can’t simply migrate all of your information for you. References in paper form cannot be pushed through a now-electronic means of information gathering. We at NCEES cannot act as though we are the respondents. If feedback is going into your account as dated/signed/submitted by PE references, employment supervisors, or boards verifying licenses, they and only they can send it. We have reached this position in conjunction with the 70 state licensing boards of the U.S.A.

We can assure you that your part in requesting these references in the new system is minimal. Your contacts’ names are already entered. All you need to do is add their email addresses and hit send. Their part is almost as easy and can be completed in a minute or two.

As far as your "contract" with NCEES is concerned, your NCEES Record is currently active. You don’t have to make any updates or changes if you don’t want to. The only reason you need to make any updates is if you plan to apply for comity licensure. If you don’t need to transmit, then you don’t need to do anything at all.

As far as extending the time you feel you have lost, there are no renewal fees moving forward. You don’t have to pay NCEES another cent and your Record will remain active. To reiterate, the only reason you would need to update anything in your account is if you need to transmit to a new licensing board.

Once again, all of the changes in the system have been made in conjunction with the state licensing boards. The tech has changed, their needs have changed, and those changes had to be implemented at some point. Now is simply that time.

Again, we know it’s an inconvenience, but we’ve tried to make it as painless as possible.

NCEES

Here's the link to the above post: [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.facebook.com/ncees/posts/1181163571915010?comment_id=1185214024843298[/url]

Let me highlight a few things:

Their part is almost as easy and can be completed in a minute or two.

If you don’t need to transmit, then you don’t need to do anything at all.

They said essentially, if you don't need to use this service then you don't need to do anything... They literally have no idea why it would be useful to be able to set this up AHEAD of needing to apply to a state board. Plus, they have absolutely no concept of how hard it is for some engineers to gather all 5 PE references. Good luck electrical engineers, engineers just starting out who haven't networked in a professional capacity, engineers who work mostly without peer review beyond their own firm, or engineers where many reference-able people have retired or are not able to be contacted.

Plus, they're missing the ENTIRE point of the records system. Keep records so we don't have to and produce them quickly for easy application. THEY'VE FAILED AT BOTH AND DON'T EVEN SEEM TO SEE THE PROBLEM!

I'm still not done. The license verification may be painless if your state will do it for free. My home state of Maine did it within a few minutes of my request for free. I apparently only needed to verify my home state but I went to verify New Hampshire and Massachusetts as well. New Hampshire required me to send in a check or a credit card form and pay a small fee to transmit it. Mass required me to sign onto their account system, register that I had license, and then pay to have them send that license to NCEES. At least this could be done by card over the internet so was reasonably fast. Overall though it's bonkers. NCEES gave the exam to me. They required a board approve me to sit for the exam. Then they sent that passing score into the board. If that's not enough then please look on the state's PUBLIC REGISTER of engineers and find my name, address, license number, and discipline. If I somehow managed to forge all of this then do you think I'm going to even bother applying to another state when I'm some wizard computer hacker?

At least "time gaps" is easy to fill in. You have to remember when you changed jobs but mostly it's not terrible. At least you can do it yourself and not wait on anyone else.

Now, "work experience". This was the icing on the cake. So after getting ALL my references in, everything was green across the board. It finally let me "review" my record to check for errors. I then click "submit"! A chorus of angels sing out and doves fly into the air. ONLY TO BE SHOT DOWN BY A TEAM OF NCEES MEMBERS WITH SHOTGUNS! MY WORK EXPERIENCE SECTION IS WHITED OUT AGAIN!!!! I click on it and it says MY WORK HISTORY IS PENDING A REVIEW BY NCEES BEFORE TRANSMITTAL!?! WHY FOR THE LOVE OF TOAST COULDN'T YOU HAVE DONE THAT EARLIER!? WHY?!!?!!?! Then, after NCEES "reviews" it, my current boss had to review it as well and agree to it! Thankfully I could bang on my bosses door pleading for him to check his email but it was just so completely bonkers that this couldn't have been done earlier.

After all of that; I finally submitted my license. It actually took so long that the state rejected my application stating that they never received the NCEES record. I sent an explanation letter but if this causes an issue I'm going to blow a gasket.

NCEES also has pretty much lied about this update. They stated multiple times on their facebook page that they sent out "multiple" emails warning about this. I still have my SINGLE email, which I posted above, and it does not imply anything that actually is involved. Further, saying that they can't copy references is bullshit as they copied my work experience and that was a paper form signed by my previous boss. To me work experience is more critical to be signed and verified in terms of getting licensed than references. Plenty of shitty engineers get references; but experience is much more verifiable. Best guess, I would think that the real reason is they don't want to put forward the manpower to hand-transfer all those records to their new digital system.

We had a big topic on engineerboards.com about this. One person was worried this might cost him a job offer. Another on the NCEES facebook page implied that this cost their company hundreds of hours for all their engineers to take the time to redo their records. The fix is stupidly easy, too. Let us submit our archaic "analog" records while we "link" our accounts and setup our digital records. Or, hell, even just letting us get it setup without having to transmit to a state! The worst though is their refusal by NCEES to admit the issues exist and that we have a valid complaint. Even if they just said "we're sorry but it's done now" would be better than rubbing the salt into the wound and stating everything is fine and "it only takes a few minutes".

When I get a minute I'm emailing my state board about this debacle. NCEES is currently holding a meeting so hopefully someone can talk some sense into them. I refuse to believe that an organization run by engineers would think this system was acceptable.

The only good news is, once setup, the new records system is better than the old one and doesn't have a yearly fee. The continuing education tracker is somewhat nice, too.

P.S. When you finally submit it you get the message "Initial transmittal in progress, additional transmittals available after initial is completed." I love how even when you're "done" you still have to wait for some unknown reason.

Professional and Structural Engineer (ME, NH, MA)
American Concrete Industries

http://www.americanconcrete.com

 

[lacajun]

Got it! Thanks, TehMightyEngineer!

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[bridgebuster]

This post made me realize I forgot to update my record in July; I never received a notice from them. Unfortunately, when I tried to log in they tell me I don't exist.

 

[RobertHale]

Well, after reading this I figure that my linking did nothing. I want to get the guts of my record sorted out before I get to a time critical situation like KootK's. Does anybody know offhand what jurisdiction has a minimal amount of paperwork with a low fee? I am currently licensed in GA and they made me take the 16hr SE. Thanks in advance

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

Maine board is easy to deal with, inexpensive to apply, quick in processing, and will accept the SE in lieu of the PE. They require PDH hours and $80 renewal fee if you wanted to keep the license.

Keep in mind you just need to pay for transmittal but obviously don't need to go through with the license unless you want to. Minimal cost would be just transmit to the most likely state you'll work in and don't do anything further.

Professional and Structural Engineer (ME, NH, MA)
American Concrete Industries

http://www.americanconcrete.com

 

[aap2]

I've haven't had any problems with the new system. I just wish they would have their tests more frequently.

To the one who wanted to know about low fees: The Tennessee PE is only $30 the last time I checked. It's back breaking $300 in Indiana and an 8 hr test.

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

plazma, are you referring to just setting up a new record? If so then I agree, the new system works fairly well and isn't too much more difficult to setup than before they switched. This thread is mostly in regard to people who had established a record with NCEES prior to their switch.

Professional and Structural Engineer (ME, NH, MA)
American Concrete Industries

http://www.americanconcrete.com

 

[aap2]

Yes I'm referring to a new record.

 

[JAE]

Just got this email from NCEES:

NCEES is committed to providing quality products and services to facilitate mobility for professional engineers, surveyors, and our 70 member boards. We fell short of this commitment with the recent upgrades to our Records program. Longtime Record holders like you are among our most valued customers and I regret that we failed to anticipate and meet your expectations.
In order to meet the current needs of our member boards, the information contained within an NCEES Record must be updated to an electronic format. We recognize the frustration this has caused and are working hard to improve the process.

On October 12, we will launch a software update that will allow NCEES to transfer most of your existing information into the new system. You will no longer be required to re-submit and re-verify most of the documentation that was submitted as part of your original application. This will significantly reduce the amount of time and effort required to re-establish your Record in the new system.

Our records indicate you are currently in the process of re-establishing your information in the new system. If you would like to take advantage of the improved process, please send an email request to records@ncees.org. Include your name, 7-digit account ID number, and the state to which you need to transmit your Record. Any information you have already updated will be retained and become a part of your re-established Record. Please let us know if you are currently seeking comity licensure and have an immediate need to transmit your Record.
Whether you choose to take advantage of the improved process or choose to continue manually updating your information, we have waived the fee for your first transmittal in the new system. Again, I'm sorry we failed to meet your expectations. We take great pride in offering quality services and we are committed to providing the best level of customer service we can to our customers.

Sincerely,
Jerry Carter
NCEES Chief Executive Officer


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[TehMightyEngineer]

Wow, talk about too little, too late. That's the response I would have expected to receive back when this first started. So, I guess getting average levels of customer service 4 months late is at least better than no customer service at all.

Interesting that you got a letter from the CEO yet other engineers I've talked with who wrote letter to the executives at NCEES months ago got no response. JAE, would you mind if I shared that email with these other engineers?

Edit: Nevermind, looks like some of them got it as well as they posted the same email. Unless of course you have multiple personalities on other engineer forums.

Professional Engineer (ME, NH, MA) Structural Engineer (IL)
American Concrete Industries

http://www.americanconcrete.com

 

[JAE]

Nope - just one!

But share away if you want.

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[TehMightyEngineer]

Whether you choose to take advantage of the improved process or choose to continue manually updating your information, we have waived the fee for your first transmittal in the new system.

Now that these emails are in the wild, I wonder how many people are considering asking for a retroactive refund of the transmittal that was required to be spent to transfer the account to the new system. I know I am.

Professional Engineer (ME, NH, MA) Structural Engineer (IL)
American Concrete Industries

http://www.americanconcrete.com

 

[flight7]

I wonder how many people are considering asking for a retroactive refund of the transmittal that was required to be spent to transfer the account to the new system. I know I am.

I'm going to get really ambitious and ask for reimbursement of the fee I sent to the state of Ohio to verify my initial license. That information should have been in the old records but NCEES couldn't/wouldn't transfer it over. (Not holding my breath)

 

[peon7]

Great idea. I had several states I had to pay.

 

[bigmig]

I just went through this. It was a pain in the ass.
Basically had to redo my entire record application with 5 new references.

Once that was done, things went as planned....pretty fast.

Also made me wonder why I even use these guys.

 

[aap2]

Well my quest just got a wrench thrown in it. Turns out one of my references seems to have a fake email account.

 

[SeanMD]

WOW.

So I'm not the only one.

Logged in to transmit a record to a new state 7 weeks ago and found they had made a few changes

Went through the process of transferring the info from my legacy record. Waited, logged in three weeks later and it all looked good. Looked like everything was up to date. Filled out the SE app for the new state and BEFORE I transmitted my record I called NCEES- you know, just to make sure. Told the gal I was just checking because I am planning on submitting my state application for licensure and I was told everything looks good. I asked about my references, to confirm they are current (in the old system you only had to update one per year) and they said they can't tell me until I transmit the record. How crazy is that? Can't tell me if my record is good until I transmit.

Well I needed the license pretty quick anyway and I was 99% sure my boss had updated my reference last December so I hit transmit, paid the fee and included a copy of the receipt in my state SE app.

Went hunting. Two weeks later come home and find a "conditional denial" letter from the state board, they never got the record from NCEES. By the time I read the letter I had two weeks left before my license application would be officially denied.

Called NCEES and asked why they never sent it, and what's going on. I was told of course they didn't send it since it was incomplete. Told the gal I HAD CALLED TO VERIFY IT WAS COMPLETE BEFORE I SENT IT!!!! and she told me I need to update it. I commented that this will all take a lot of time to have all of my licenses verified by the each state (my initial SE license is in a VERY slow state) and it is not likely to get done before my license app is denied, which really defeats the whole purpose of the record process. She told me I could always apply directly to the state board.

So I logged back in and found I had a LOT of issues with my record. Did not have my "birth name' entered. Time gaps (no record of employment since my original record was established, and missing information in other time records. No email addresses or verifications from any of my references. No verification of licensure from any state boards. Nothing for "representative projects" in the work experience section (this is a new section, didn't exist before). Have to answer a list of questions - again.

So going through the process (thank heavens all my references work with me, except the emails all wound up in their spam folder) and get notice I can submit for review today. My state with my initial PE license is verified, my state with my initial SE license did not. Tried to submit anyway since I think the new state only needs my exam verification - at least I hope.

Comes back pretty darn quick saying my experience isn't detailed enough. Task and Duties section. Silly me, I just copied the text out of my old record. No longer good enough. Just completed it, I have ~1 week left until my license app is officially denied.

Interesting that one of the question you have to answer is have you ever been denied licensure. It is likely in the future I will have to answer yes to that question.

Thanks NCEES.

 

[JedClampett]

I've been slightly enjoying the pain of others, as I haven't needed my NCEES record for quite a while. But I'm sure my turn in the barrel is coming.
My questions is; Aren't there some states that only accept NCEES records for reciprocity applicants? I think Missouri was one of those. Even if they're not, there are others. What are those states doing? Shutting down their license departments? It seems NCEES is totally dysfunctional.

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

Jed, yes. According to NCEES, Georgia (as KootK found out), Kentucky, Massachusetts, Puerto Rico, Rhode Island, and Wyoming all require an NCEES record.

Professional Engineer (ME, NH, MA) Structural Engineer (IL)
American Concrete Industries

http://www.americanconcrete.com