Nearly new rusty Mazda

[M3Jim]

Hi all,

My mother recently bought a Mazda CX-7. After around 6,000 miles, the brakes are destroyed. Related or not, while the vehicle was on the lift she noticed an inordinate amount of rust on the exhaust and other areas.

The dealership is claiming that the problem is hurricane damage from Irma (she lives near Melbourne, FL), but if the vehicle had been underwater, her house would have been underwater also, and that didn't happen. The insurance company says it is not hurricane damage. So she is now stuck in the middle and without a car. Somebody mentioned that it looks like the underside of the vehicle had been submerged at some point.

Does anyone here have any insight as to what may have caused the excessive rust? Does it appear that it may have been submerged? I am starting to think it may have been shipped here after being in Texas during Harvey.

I have attached a few pictures.

A few exhaust photos:

Here are a couple of the brakes. The only thing I can think of here is that, if it was submerged, the caliper slide pins got corroded, which left the pads in near constant contact with the rotors. Anybody got a better theory?

Finally, here is one where you can see the suspension bushings and how much rust there is already in this area:

Any help, advice, or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Have a great day,
Jim

 

[EdStainless]

Did she buy it new?
If used have you run a title search?
From a Mazda dealer?

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P.E. Metallurgy, Plymouth Tube

 

[M3Jim]

Hi EdStainless,

Yes, she bought it new. No disclosures regarding any prior damage or history. That is why this doesn't seem to make any sense, but the dealer is blaming the hurricane, so "act of God", I guess. I find it difficult to believe that a hurricane Irma had anything to do with the damage to her vehicle.

Thanks for the reply and have a great day,
Jim

 

[metengr]

I would agree it looks like it suffered from being partially submerged in water for an extended period.

 

[M3Jim]

Thanks metengr, could you elaborate as to what is "an extended period?" Do you think this could happen in an hour, a day, or a week? How much different would the duration matter if it was fresh water vs. salt water?

Thanks again and have a great day,
Jim

 

[Compositepro]

There is little difference between being submerged in salt water and being exposed to occasional muddy, saltwater spray in a humid environment. The quality of the steel and of the galvanizing is also a factor, but salt is a very big factor.

In Florida, it is very likely that on many mornings you find that heavy steel parts in the shade of the car will be wet from condensation because they are still cold from night time and thus below the dew point of the air in the mornings when temperature and humidity are rising.

 

[M3Jim]

Thanks Compositepro,

So are you saying that typical morning condensation could produce similar effects as submersion in a locale like Florida? Not arguing, just confirming that I understand your point. I know everything outside gets rusty here in the beach areas of FL, but she has had the car less than 6 months.

There is the question of quality, but Mazda says there is no manufacturing defect. I guess part of the reason I am here is to figure out if this was manufacturing or something happened to this vehicle before she received it. There is the possibility that this is just how the vehicle was designed to wear, but I find it hard to believe that this is normal corrosion for 6 months of life, even in FL. Of course, I could be wrong.

Have a great day,
Jim

 

[EdStainless]

The FL cars that I know of (Toyota, near Palm Beach) don't look at all like that. And they are parked outside all of the time.
Was the brake wear one side of the rotor/one pad? Like the slides were rusted?
There isn't much that you can do now, but keep a close eye on things.
Any suspension squeaks, brake noises, or wheel sounds (bearings) need to taken to the dealer with demands for immediate attention.
If the dealer drags his feet contact the regions service people.
Where was this car built? This could be a result of just sitting in a yard in a coastal location waiting to ship. But this is more corrosion under a car than have seen on 3 year old FL cars.

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P.E. Metallurgy, Plymouth Tube

 

[M3Jim]

Hi Ed,

Ya, my cars here in south Florida are mostly parked outside and they don't look like that after living here for 3 years.

I haven't been able to inspect the car, and my mom did not check the insides of the rotors, so I don't know about the slides or the other side of the rotors.

Unfortunately, the vehicle is at the dealership while my mom gets started with the arbitration process. I could fix it for her, but she doesn't think she should have to keep a vehicle that is in that shape after only 6 months.

It was built in Japan. We are still trying to get to the bottom of the build date. The dealer says it was manufactured in Sept. 2016 (it is a 2016MY) but that seems a little late for a 2016. Either way, it has been sitting for a very long time. You may be onto something there. We are going to try to figure out where this vehicle has been.

Have a great day,
Jim

 

[Dhurjati Sen]

M3Jim,

The car was built in Japan could hold the key. Something unusual could have happened while shipping, like exposure to salt water atmosphere for a very long time due to faulty packaging.

Still the dealer holds the key as this would have definitely been detected by him when he took delivery.

Regards.

DHURJATI SEN

 

[EdStainless]

It may have been in transit, or it may have sat in a yard at a harbor (either side) for a long time.
One key might be to pull off a door panel and look inside of a door. If the inside of the door bottom is rusty then this is serious.


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P.E. Metallurgy, Plymouth Tube

 

[bimr]

In general, vehicles that sit rust faster than vehicles in daily usage.

The vehicle may have been sitting in the dealer lot during bad weather and the dealer lot may have partially flooded. The dealer lot may have flooded just enough to submerge the bottom of the vehicle, but not over the floor boards.

Another scenario that you probably do not want to hear about is street flooding. In South Florida in general, two or three inches of rain per hour creates only minor street flooding. Yet if eight to 10 inches pours down in a hour or two, roads usually are severely flooded and canals overflow.

Your mother may have driven through minor street flooding caused by the rise of sea water which is common in South Florida. If the sea water was not rinsed off the vehicle promptly, the salt from sea water may have caused the damage.

In any event, it definitely appears that the vehicle bottom has been exposed to salt water. If nothing else, you should check the door panels to confirm that the water has not penetrated above the floor panels. The salt water will have caused extreme damage to the vehicle's electronic components. That is why flood damaged vehicles are typically destroyed by the insurance companies.

 

[hokie66]

If you can track the vehicle, that will likely tell the story. If it sat on a dock for a long time in Yokohama or some Japanese port, or in Florida after arrival, then tropical storms which occurred at those locations during those time frames may be it. Some of those Asian ports have many thousands of vehicles parked unprotected right near the loading facilities. I would think the car carriers themselves give good protection against the elements, but that is just from observing what the ships look like.

It is going to be quite a detective feat, as there is apparently about 12 months between vehicle build and purchase by your mother.

 

[brimmer]

It looks like to me, especially with the brakes that this vehicle was exposed (submerged or otherwise) to some environment, and left to sit for a period without getting cleaned. Has your mom always driven it, or does it sit for extended periods of time?

 

Vehicles don't suffer this kind of damage in ocean transit unless something goes horribly wrong. (My excellent Mazda6 was built in Michigan.) This example appears to be a victim of prolonged flooding/storm damage.


"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

[M3Jim]

Well, thanks everyone for helping out. Here is another picture which makes me think it was sitting in water somewhere:

I didn't include it before, because I don't know exactly where it goes under the vehicle. Judging from the line around it, That looks like the level of the water line that it was sitting in. I wish I could go look at it, but I am having my own vehicle problems right now, so I can't drive up to get a look at it. I would think there would be other location where you could see a water line.

The other thing that seems odd to me is that todays exhaust systems are usually pretty durable, but the pipe, muffler, and the cylinder I labeled as catalyst are all quite rusted. It looks like whatever coating was on it is starting to flake off, which is something I haven't seen before.

The car did sit for a month while she was in Hawaii, but other than that, it has been regularly driven. You can see some mud in one of the pictures where she had driven through a puddle, but other than that, I don't think it has gone through any flooding while she had it.

I was kind of hoping that this might be a little more clear cut, but it doesn't sound like it is. Proving that something happened before she bought it would be a difficult and expensive task. I guess she can just push back against the dealer and see how far she gets and how far she wants to go. The unfortunate part is they were willing to do an exchange until she arrived at the dealer to execute it. By the time she got there they had changed their minds and decided it was hurricane damage.

Have a great day,
Jim

 

[mrfailure]

The dealership is claiming that the problem is hurricane damage from Irma (she lives near Melbourne, FL), but if the vehicle had been underwater, her house would have been underwater also, and that didn't happen.

Why is this so hard to believe? Even if the car was dry in a garage during the hurricane, the observed damage still is consistent the car being subsequently driven through a partially flooded area before the waters receded. Locations of corrosion are sure consistent with this, and as has been suggested brake problems are also consistent with such corrosion. This explanation falls under Occam's Razor, a rule I deeply believe in and apply.

As for explanations involving shipment or manufacture, the other cars in the same lot would be exhibiting damage from subsequent exposure. You have not found any evidence of that. And routine exposure in a coastal area also does not make sense - all other Mazdas would also be again experiencing this problem. In truth, modern automobiles are made to resist normal environmental corrosion - that is why manufacturers have long corrosion warranties on new vehicles (I think they are for 8 years, but I may be wrong). This vehicle instead saw unusual service conditions.