Need Expert Help on Liquid Ring Compressors 2

[77Bronc]

I need some help on a new set of liquid ring compressors that are not operating as designed, is there an expert consultant out there that you can recommend to me that understands liquid riings and help troubleshoot?

Thanks,

77Bronc

 

[Artisi]

What is the problem?

 

[katmar]

Your first step should be to call in the supplier. Even if the representative who comes to see you does not have the answer himself, he should have access to all the technical backup you could need.

If you are more specific with your problem statement you will probably find plenty of relevant experience amongst the members here.

Katmar Software
Engineering & Risk Analysis Software

http://katmarsoftware.com

 

[MortenA]

The guys at Nash-Elmo is one of the well known brands.

They are now apperently been bought by a company called Gardner Denver:

http://www.gardnerdenvernash.com/products/products_groups.asp?ai=@en_us@@@20@@2@

Best regards

Morten

 

[ozmosis]

77Bronc
As Artisi says, "what is the problem?"
There are consultants, manufacturers, experts and users all within the Eng-Tips community. It's quite simple, you ask a question and hopefully it gets answered, and often backed up by others. And it's for free.

 

[77Bronc]

The problem is loss of liquid ring in the Nash compressor due to "spongy" water, water that is not de-canted enough and still has hydrocarbons trapped....

We have a large installation and there is not enough room on this page to post all of the problems and issues we have had...

I really need someone, other than Nash, to help me look at the system, look at the design and help troubleshoot the system as a whole.

I have found out there are few people out there that specialize in Liquid Ring type PD machines. I need a name, that I can call, vet my problema nd have him trtavel to the facility to look.

Thanks,

77Bronc

 

[katmar]

Where are you? The combined team of Artisi, Morten and Katmar have got Australasia, Europe and Africa covered. Does that help?

 

[zdas04]

There are a few of us in NA that have some knowledge of these beasts.

David

 

[Artisi]

katmar- good one, although I can understand his/her problem is relaying a complex multi facetted problem in writing in a forum such as this.

 

[MortenA]

Artisi

Good point - and you cant use this forum to actually solve your problems - in my oppinion. You can get _help_ to find out how to solve them from a lot of friendly profesionals.

Best regards

Morten

 

[77Bronc]

I am in SE Louisiana and I will be writing for days to explain, what I need is a name of a person and number that has a lot of experience with Liq Ring compressors, trouble shooting and understanding system issues that impact relaibility. We cannot keep a machine running for more than a day....

I do not want to go into any more deatil on-line, as I am not sure what my company's policy is concerning this topic...

The issue is we are struggling right now and I need some outside company help.

Thanks,

77Bronc

 

[vpl]

So to put it bluntly, you want to hire a professional because, for some reason, you don't trust the manufacturer. Even though, if it is new equipment, it should still be under warranty and the manufacturer really should be involved. And your question for the forums is:

What company/individual would you recommend hiring to help resolve a problem with liquid ring compressors?

Just one question though: If you don't have authority to post in these pages, how do you have authority to hire someone?



Patricia Lougheed

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.

Want to post an image? See FAQ559-1100 and FAQ559-1177.

 

[77Bronc]

Patrica,

You have missed the point totally...I have all the authority to hire anyone I want, the issue is it is not a manufacures issue....it is not the actual compressors, it is the separation and KO system and control system that i would like to have someone review and help trouble shoot why we have a higher than normal hydrocarbon content in the compensated water that returns back to the compressor.

I feel you reply is a little caustic, I work for a major company, and I would rather not say who it is right now, we are in heated discussion with the ECC and suppliers on final resolution, I am looking for a third party to basically review the system and see what we or they are missing.

This is called complete trouble shooting and covering your bases....it follows the best RCFA procedure, look at the system as a whole and not the parts.

 

[zdas04]

77Bronc,
I think you should just cool your jets here. This forum has a significant portion of the world's knowledge on compressors. The typical request is "how do I fix ..." and we often have helpful suggestions.

On the other hand any one of us could have said "go to my web page and get my phone number and hire me to help". Or we _could say "call my competitor at ________, he'll be glad to help you". The first response would be seen as self serving. The second response would just be nonsense. I only send troublesome potential clients to competitors.

Buy a Don's Directory (you can Google them as well as I can) and pick a consultant by means of your own.

David

 

[77Bronc]

David,

I do not want to get into a posting war here, I do believe you too have missed my intent....

All I was asking for is a name or names of people in the industry that have liquid ring compressor and systems experience that I could call on to help my facility.

If this is not the forum or place to ask this type of question, then say so....

I am a senior level compressor engineer, over twenty five years experience with large machines, expanders and turbines....my experience with liquid rings is small, this is my first time working with this design machinery, we have ourselves in a situation here where the OEM and the engineering contrator have exhausted all of thier resources to try to solve the system problems with our new installation. I was simply looking for names or contacts that I might be able to call to help, review the design and might be able to offer some assistance.

I found this site on Google, looking for liquid ring experience....

What I find most amazing is on a forum with engineering members, the slam and negative responses to very simple question.

Rich

 

[vpl]

77Bronc

My reply was not intended in the least to be caustic. I was trying to make sense of what you were asking. If there are a half-dozen experienced engineers reading this and all saying "we need more information" and your response is that we are slamming you with negative responses, then there is a definite failure to communicate. When someone tells me my answer is "caustic", a "slam" and "negative" my interest in giving that person an answer rapidly becomes non-existant. Of course, this will probably fuel your bad-mouthing us.

I wish you luck, especially if your oral communication skills reflect your written ones.

Patricia Lougheed

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.

Want to post an image? See FAQ559-1100 and FAQ559-1177.

 

[BenThayer]

i am not sure what "spongy" water means but you referenced the loss of the seal fluid.

there are two basic types of seal fluid designs that i have seen:

Type 1) seal fluid circulation is by controlling the level in the pot and line sizing and head provide the seal fluid flow requirements.

Type 2) seal fluid supplied by a small inline pump.

if you have Type 1 and you are having fluctuations in the amount of hydrocarbons, you might not be getting enough head pressure to supply the seal fluid due to changes in the specific gravity of the liquid. you could effectively starve the liquid ring and lose fluid.

or you may be running too low a pressure for the hydrocarbon and it is flashing to a vapor, etc.

is the sealing fluid supplied by pump or head pressure?

do you have a meter on the seal fluid flow?

 

[77Bronc]

Ben,

Thanks for your response...

The comp seal water flow back to the ocmpressor is being supplied by head pressure from a 2 phase sep...

The spongy I refered to is the amount of HC in the water, mainly C3 and C4...The comp seal provides additional energy to the water on the final rotation of compression, less than 30 degrees of rotation...if the water is "spongy" the machine cannot develop the head and cannot get into the amine contactor system...we do not believe the issues is with the compressor, the issue is with the anncillary system that supports the machines.

We are operating the LR compressors on the edge of of available technology as far as pressure ratio, in my opinion.

My team is preparing a KT analysis of the system next week, using the failure and trip data from the last three months.

We feel the problem is with the 2 phase sep on the discharge of the compressor, inadquate design as far as retention time....

Hence the initial posting, looking for an expert on LR system design and trouble shooting the system.

We are all real close to the fire right now and third eye looking at the system, not knowing the past history of the system, project and operating issues would have been good.

I did not mean to offend anyone here, but it appears I have done so, even accused of poor writing skills. Interesting!!!

 

[katmar]

77Bronc, I can understand that you saw our responses as negative etc, but you also need to see your question in the context of what the regular members see here. We get many questions that are well formulated and which cover interesting topics and these elicit interesting discussions, even if they don't always lead to a solution.

We also get many questions from young or inexperienced engineers that are barely more than "My pump is broken - how do I fix it." Unfortunately your question was closer to the second type than the first. So the first advice that you got was more along the lines of how to formulate your question than on how to solve the problem.

Anyway, now that we know what you are after, and we know where you are, we can give some applicable advice. I recommend that you approach the local (or state) association of consulting engineers (or whatever it is called in your neck of the woods) and ask for a list of consultants in your area. Then phone a few and ask if they have applicable experience or if they can recommend other consultants. Consultants get to know who is expert in what field, and are usually happy to refer work to each other in the knowledge that the favor will be returned one day.

Good luck


Katmar Software
Engineering & Risk Analysis Software

http://katmarsoftware.com

 

[TenPenny]

In short, what the OP is looking for is a third party who can bring experience and knowlege of LR compressor SYSTEMS to the game, to augment the knowledge of the supplier and end user, to help nail down an operational problem, which is possibly, or probably, not specifically a compressor problem. That's a pretty straightforward request.

Let's skip the acrimony and bs, and get back to the point. Does anybody have any suggestions? I don't know any LRcompressor gurus.