Need help finding an insulation

[trb7578]

I got thrown on this because I am designing a heat recovery loop right now, I mean insulating and heat recovery same thing right?
Anyways, I am looking for a thermal insulation that would also create a vapor barrier. It is above a prodcution floor for tomato based sauces, so it has to meet food production standards. I have never really dealt with insulating, besides specing what was needed. I was hoping that someone would know of an insulation that would fit the criteria, globalspec was of no help, and local insulators couldn't really produce something that the boss liked. The problem as it stands is that there is offices above the porduction floor, and humidity and heat is rising up there and they are all complaining and we basically hace our HVAC guy up there every 20 min adjusting something. It concrete floor above steel. It is high hundity and high heat, as steam is realesed to the plant right below these offices. I am stumped right now as to what would work

 

[Ashereng]

What is the floor of these offices made of? Also, is the humidity coming up through the floor, or is the humidity getting into the offices because the access to the offices are not sealed?

If the humidity is coming up through the floor, a vapour barrier may help.

If the humidity is getting in because there are gaps into the offices, then perhaps something like an air lock access to the offices (expensive) or better seals around the doors (cheaper) would help.

I am not sure how insulation would reduce humidity getting into the offices.

 

[trb7578]

a vapor barrier would be the answer for the moisture part but not the temperature part, basically steam is released about 20 ft below said floor. both the moisture and the heat is rising up through the floor, which is evident by the wall paper peeling patern. I was looking for like a vapor barrier insulator all in one package, i guess you could say. The floor is basically

concrete
steal
2' air space that has pipes, conduet and wires ran through
drop cieling

I guess I am looking for something that is thin since the space limitations it can be atmost like 8", the hunidity that is found up there is around 95% and the average temp right now is around 85-95 degrees F. The other thing i was thinking of doing is drawing in air and making it positive pressure forcing the air and moisture out of the 2ft space. the only problem is i can not draw outside air and I can not find a scource of cool dry air to perform this

 

[Ashereng]

Possibly the hard foam insulation may work? It is thin, and is used in place of both blown and fibreglass batting. You can install it behind the vapour barrier. Just a thought.

With regards to the air in the office, are you currently using a dehumidifier? It may help.

With regards to positive pressure i the 2ft space, if you have an utility air hearder, you may be able to use that. Or, the instrument air header, if it has excess capacity?

 

[quark]

If you feel insulation will solve your problem, you can try the closed cell neoprene or any other closed cell material as insulation. These can be painted so that you won't loose aesthetic looks. Try

http://www.armaflex.com/

and

http://www.aeroflexusa.com/

 

[GenB]

You may want to contact freezer contractors
as they deal with NSF enclossures.
moisture sealing for them is not a problem
genb

 

[pennpoint]

I am with "quark" on this because once you have sealed the insulation over the tubes what more do you need to do...
Get yer done....If you want to spend more $ look at "Glass Foam" Corning.com...

regards
pennpoint


Best regards
pennpoint

 

[MFranklin]

If I have read you posts correctly I believe you have two problems. You said the steam is released on the production floor, rising up through the suspended ceiling and heating the concrete floor of the office space above. I am not sure how much of the office humidity problem is a result of moisture through the concrete floor as opposed to infiltration. The steam pipes that run between the dropped ceiling and the floor need to be insulated (Cel-Glas or Glass-Foam)I'm not sure how high a temperature Armaflex is rated. This keeps the heat in the steam pipes, not radiating into the crawl space plus your maint. crew avoid burns from hot piping.

Now we need to keep the steam away.
Since the production floor is a food processing facility, if you put fiberglass into that ceiling the Food Inspectors will not be your friends. (Product contamination anyone?) Likewise over-pressurizing the crawl space brings the possibility of forcing contaminates into your production area.

There is a product that is food grade that is used in the food industry to make wall panels and suspended walk on ceilings, it consists of two pieces of FRP wallboard with a closed foam core usually a poly-styrene. You replace the existing suspended ceiling with the insulated panel system which is caulked during the installation, and presto! you have a combination vapor barrier and insulation barrier.


Another avenue of approach that you might consider would be to mount hoods over your steam processes (if they are localized) and mechanically vent the waste heat and humidity to the exterior of the building. Naturally you will have to provide for make up air to replace the exhaust air. If this is possible, it would remove the problem at the source and could well be the most economic and efficient way to spend your money.

One question I have is what kind of condensation issues are there with respect to the production area? Management will spend money to keep production going long before they spend it on office workers comfort. I have worked in the industrial refrigeration field(ammonia) since 1996 mostly with poultry and further processing facilities. Around 2000 the USDA modified the rules regarding condensation and a lot of money was spent controlling humidty, infiltration and room temperatures. I don't remember anyone worrying about worker comfort. These processing rooms are must be kept below +50 F to inhibit microbiological growth. They usually ran between +38 F and +46 F. The line workers would beg us to please turn the refrigeration off.

Well that's my two cents worth,where's the spell checker on this thing?
Mike Franklin