Need help on Plumbing Plan Reviewer Comment

[SoFloJoe]

Hi All,

Commercial buildout project in Florida - Florida Building Code 2014

I do minor MEP for our plans and we have a stickler as a plan reviewer. Long story short, we are doing a commercial buildout which was combining two units into one. In the middle of the reno the tenant changed his mind on having two units and only decided to take one of them. Resulting in needing an additional bathroom in the single space. Because the bathroom is now at the end of the sanitary line we have received a comment from the plumbing plan reviewer of:
"Drink fountain to drain down stream of the bath groups" See the attached clip of the existing riser, the new toilet is in red

The drinking fountain drain and sanitary was already done and is under slab. I have never heard of this requirement prior. Can anyone point me to the code that requires this?

I want to comply but I do not know how without ripping out the slab and completely redoing the space which is out of the question. If we reroute the drinking fountain to the closest sink then wouldn't it be still not meet the downstream requirement? And what about the sinks, do they need to be downstream too?

Another thought, I am thinking this requirement is due to health issues with a water fountain not having sewage backflow through the drain. If this is the case could a backflow be put in and that should resolve the issue?

Any comments or suggestions much appreciated! Thank you.

 

[PEDARRIN2]

Based on the verbiage, "drink fountain to drain down stream of the bath groups" indicates to me he is thinking you are using bathroom group venting (Section 912 of the code). But according to your sketch, the most upstream toilet room could be considered a bathroom group, although I would think that a stretch having only two fixtures, while the downstream toilet room is vented individually so would not be considered a bathroom group. So connecting the drinking fountain drain as you have shown it is fine.

There should not be a backflow issue.

That being said, I've dealt with Florida AHJ in the past and they tend to be a bit of a PIP - so good luck.

 

[bimr]

Hard to tell without seeing a floor plan. However, drinking fountains are prohibited from being installed in toilet rooms.

 

[SoFloJoe]

Thank you for the suggestion. No the drinking fountain is not in the bathroom. Attached is a clip of the floorplan area that I am talking about.

I reviewed the code 912 as you suggested and I am bit confused.
"912.1Horizontal wet vent permitted.
Any combination of fixtures within two bathroom groups located on the same floor level is permitted to be vented by a horizontal wet vent. The wet vent shall be considered the vent for the fixtures and shall extend from the connection of the dry vent along the direction of the flow in the drain pipe to the most downstream fixture drain connection to the horizontal branch drain. Each wet-vented fixture drain shall connect independently to the horizontal wet vent. Only the fixtures within the bathroom groups shall connect to the wet-vented horizontal branch drain. Any additional fixtures shall discharge downstream of the horizontal wet vent."

Can this be explained in laymen terms? What I am understanding is that since I do not have more than 2 bathroom groups a horizontal wet vent is permitted. I have vertical dry vents anyways so I am not sure if I am understanding this correctly.

Thank you!

 

[PEDARRIN2]

In general, it is an allowance in the code to not have to provide individual vents for each fixture in a bathroom group (or groups) which the plumbing code defines in chapter 2. It allows, under prescribed conditions, to be allowable to vent the bathroom group(s) with a single vent.

Since you have individual vents on most of the fixtures (except for the upstream toilet and sink), this would not be considered an applicable IPC 909 bathroom
group(s) with a single vent. It would just be a group of fixtures vented in different ways.

So... the prohibition of connecting a fixture, not part of a bathroom group, should not apply.

However, being as you are in Florida, and they have their own way of doing it and sometimes could care less about anything else, they may take the last sentence of IPC 909.1 (prohibition of other fixtures connecting) as a separate requirement for bathroom groups irrespective if you are using the venting allowance section IPC 909 is describing. Taking that line of reasoning, they could prohibit connection of the drinking fountain to the piping in the toilet room under any circumstance.

 

[SoFloJoe]

Thank you for the replies.

The real issue is not the vent, but rather where the wet vent is connecting to the horizontal drain. Since the water fountain is connecting in between the 2 bathroom groups, I think the plan reviewer is now considering this NOT downstream. Per the code "...Only the fixtures within the bathroom groups shall connect to the wet-vented horizontal branch drain. Any additional fixtures shall discharge downstream of the horizontal wet vent." So the water fountain should be downstream. I believe this is what he is saying.

Is he correct in this assumption? Any way around this?

I am going to meet him tomorrow morning and try to resolve this. I will keep you all up to date on what happens.

Thank you,

 

[bimr]

Here is the wording;

"908.2.5 Additional Fixtures. Additional fixtures shall discharge downstream of the wet vent system and be conventionally vented. Only the fixtures within the bathroom group shall connect to the wetvented horizontal branch."

and here is the interpretation discussion:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/2015-guide-important-code-changes-8140-condensate-wastes-sanchez-1/

 

[PEDARRIN2]

I didn't look at your floor plan previously.

I can see how the inspector might be making his case.

Taking a look at how it corresponds with the diagram - the drinking fountain is connecting to the system within the bounds of the left "Bath" so from a strict point of view, it is connecting within the "bathroom group.

However, an argument could be made the "bathroom group" type venting ends at the connection of the sink to the system, not the physical walls of the toilet room. After that point, it is just a sanitary pipe and you can connect the drinking fountain to it as you have shown. Your argument is stronger since you have offset the drain from the sink in the wall to a point closer to the toilet.

In cases like this where there is a butting of the heads, we have gotten the inspector to sign off by writing a letter which frees him/her of any responsibility of issues related to the engineer's interpretation of the code. It is, after all, your (or somebody's) stamp on the drawings.

Never done this in Florida, so I don't know if it would work.