Need suggestion for UNPAID OVERTIME (72 hours a week!) 26

[billbusy]

Just started as an intermediate field engineer in a construction project in the USA.

during the offer negotiation, I was told there will be some overtime work and I will only get paid for 40 hours.

In the job offer letter, it states, 6 days per week and work up to 10 hours a day.
As the salary seems ok(based on MAX. 60 hours) and I don't have other better choices in Canada, I accepted it.

We start at 6:30am. The 1st day in this project, one of my coworkers asked the site manager what is the regular working hour, site managers didn't answer but only said, I work 12 hours each day.

Since then, everyone (2 site engineers+ 3 superintendents + safety officer + site manager) left work ~6:30pm everyday.

It means 6 x 12=72 hours per week.

Another engineer (senior level) complained about it with me privately (he has the same term in the offer letter), but nobody say anything publicly.

I can not survive in the current schedule. What should I do?

Should I　talk to someone, like HR or site manager? The site manager knows my contract term. The HR is not here and I don't think he can really help.

Or I just leave earlier quietly everyday by myself? I also feel a little isolated if I am the only one leaves earlier.

I think the site manager just want to create an environment to force people work overtime (as it is a lump sump project). I don't want to challenge his management, but I can't work 12 hours everyday.

What other good ideas or solutions?

Thank you.

 

[miningman]

If you really CANT work 12 hours per day , hand in two weeks notice. If the real problem is you don't WANT to work 12 hours per day without overtime, suck it up. In this economy, especially seeing as you are a relative junior , you need to be willing to pay your dues.

 

[TheTick]

More and more employers are using "the economy" (more like the economy of 3 years ago) as an excuse for abuse. There's "suck it up", and there's life-sucking abuse. This is the latter. It may be the norm in the industry, but it ain't right.

 

[DVWE]

First of all, ouch!!

Second of all, read the thread below:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=406077

Lastly, you are not obligated to provide anything more than you signed up for. DO NOT feel isolated for leaving "on time."

 

[billbusy]

To miningman (Mining)

I don't want for now and I can't if it last for a few weeks/months.

why should I quit as I have already full filled my commitment if I work 10 hours per day?

 

[nickelkid]

I am not sure of the logistics, but can you get time off during the day? Like longer lunches of a couple of hours every few days. Perhaps they want all for be around for Start and Close of Business, that may be important for the culture.

 

[KENAT]

billbusy, leaving after your 10 hours per day may eventually lead to the same end result as quitting.

However, I'm not saying don't do it, just pointing out that in the US it can be fairly easy for an employer to get rid of you (varies a little by state) compared to some other places, but I'm not familiar with Canadian employment law.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[billbusy]

nickelkid (Mechanical)

I can. Like go to the town for a full hour lunch.

I　don't want that but I need some times for my personal life after work, like go to ymca or watch tv at home.

 

[billbusy]

To KENAT (Mechanical)

That is why I feel isolated.

The management just want to create a culture and force everyone work 12 hours.

my bottom line is go back home to receive unemployment insurance OR work 10 hours efficiently and happily.

How can I make the 10-hours schedule as normal as possible?

 

[moltenmetal]

72 hrs per week is ridiculous. Unless you will starve without the job, you need to either a) renegotiate or b) quit.

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

Talk with the other disgruntled engineer and go to management together. Be friendly but firm, lay out that you were hired for 60 hours a week and you're getting forced into working 72. This is no different then if they took 16% of your paycheck for themselves. Don't stand for it. If they say no then spend two hours a day working on your own projects (or applying to other jobs). If they're not compensating you for 100% of your time then I wouldn't give them 100% of your effort.

Professional and Structural Engineer (ME, NH, MA)
American Concrete Industries

http://www.americanconcrete.com

 

[zeusfaber]

Even from the manager's perspective, 72 Hours a week ought to be recognised as bad practice. Productivity can't be good (not even in the hours they're paying for the following day) and somewhere round about the eleventh hour in any given day is when expensive mistakes get embarrassingly common.

But then, if your site manager is one of those dimwits who equates (other people's) effort with progress, you've backed a loser.

A.

 

[SNORGY]

billbusy,

Yes, this is abuse. Put up with it short term, prepare a back-up plan, and make as gracious an exit as they deserve. In my mind, what they deserve is one day you simply don't show up at all. What they are doing is wrong, disgusting and blackmail.

 

[MikeHalloran]

That site manager is a damn hero, insofar as Top Management (*) is concerned.

He's got an entire crew of Salaried Professionals working five half days and a full day for free every week.
That isn't going to change.

The folks who are being paid by the hour must be laughing themselves silly at you buffoons.

I'll bet the company is not even providing catered onsite meals in partial recompense.

I'm only conflicted about whether you should tell prospective employers that you were so easily taken advantage of.
On the one hand, it marks you as a Team Player.
On the other hand, it also marks you as a fool.



(*) I often use Top Management as a pejorative, as in this case.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[truckandbus]

Even if the compensation matched the hours worked, 6x12 is no way to live

 

[Triangled]

sounds like you're moving on so start looking for work,
in the mean time,
commit to learning every possible thing you can re engineering and construction from everyone there, wringing all the knowledge and insight you can from the position, especially the old-timers there,
commit to massive self-improvements in personal productivity, don't let your peer's pace set your pace
don't let their ick stick to you.

 

[billbusy]

Thanks all you guys.

I have per Diem as it is a field work. Considering the exchange rate, the current salary for 60 hours (not 72) is acceptable.

During the interview, they told me there will be some unpaid OT. From the job offer, I didn't expect anything more than 10 hours/day except some emergency situation.

After I started, I learned that the site manager and project manager(in home office)want to finish the project by Nov 1st rather than Dec 20th as the original planning.

The site manager is a tough senior guy, yes, he is kind of blackmailing us, but he also stays here 13/14 hours each day.

I can tell the power of the group culture/environment is really strong.

Because the manager stays longer and everyone else stays ~12 hours, it make me feel maybe I am a bad ass, maybe this is the right/expected schedule/performance for the construction project like this. I feel confused. I am thinking if I comply with the schedule for a few days, I will be just like other team members and believe that is the right schedule.

I don't want to judge his choice, maybe he will have a big bonus, maybe he really loves the work and has nothing to do back to motel. But, it is just not what I expected and learned during the interview. I just want to finish my work and leave earlier quietly.

I have done like this for 2 days and feel a little bit isolated.

I am waiting for someone to talk to me ...

 

[LionelHutz]

I bet the 10 hours a day or 6 days a week was also supposed to be on occasion and not the normal, right?

Your agreement was for up to 10 hours a day, so leave no later than somewhere between the minimum required and the 10th hour every day. If (when) confronted, make sure you have a copy of the offer document to produce which states as such and stand your ground on never working over 60 hours and let things fall where they may.

Your site manager may have incentives to work like a slave, such as a performance bonus based on the project success, making it in his best interest to attempt slave driving the rest of the team to achieve his goals.

My BIL is working in Alberta O&G as a bus mechanic and does 7x12 for 2 weeks alternating the schedule every other 2 weeks. At the end of each month he puts in about the same amount of time as a 8-5 worker doing 5 days a week so the schedule is fair. But, you're not getting the time off to compensate for the weeks with long hours which makes it unfair.

I also suggest you read the employment rules for the province you are working in. In Ontario, there are laws which limit the hours worked to 48 unless you agree to more hours in writing, and even then you can revoke agreeing to work over 48 hours by giving 2 weeks written notice.

 

[billbusy]

To LionelHutz (Electrical)

I am in the States now. The state which I work in doesn't require employer to pay OT for professional positions.

 

[berkshire]

Billbusy,
Read the attached link, if you hit more than 4 bullet points, get your resume cleaned up, because you are leaving.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.