Need suggestion for UNPAID OVERTIME (72 hours a week!) 26

[billbusy]

Just started as an intermediate field engineer in a construction project in the USA.

during the offer negotiation, I was told there will be some overtime work and I will only get paid for 40 hours.

In the job offer letter, it states, 6 days per week and work up to 10 hours a day.
As the salary seems ok(based on MAX. 60 hours) and I don't have other better choices in Canada, I accepted it.

We start at 6:30am. The 1st day in this project, one of my coworkers asked the site manager what is the regular working hour, site managers didn't answer but only said, I work 12 hours each day.

Since then, everyone (2 site engineers+ 3 superintendents + safety officer + site manager) left work ~6:30pm everyday.

It means 6 x 12=72 hours per week.

Another engineer (senior level) complained about it with me privately (he has the same term in the offer letter), but nobody say anything publicly.

I can not survive in the current schedule. What should I do?

Should I　talk to someone, like HR or site manager? The site manager knows my contract term. The HR is not here and I don't think he can really help.

Or I just leave earlier quietly everyday by myself? I also feel a little isolated if I am the only one leaves earlier.

I think the site manager just want to create an environment to force people work overtime (as it is a lump sump project). I don't want to challenge his management, but I can't work 12 hours everyday.

What other good ideas or solutions?

Thank you.

 

[moltenmetal]

A star to Berkshire for that list- taken with a grain of salt of course. It's a bit phobic in my opinion, but it does have some good clues to watch out for, and advice about who to talk to in order to get a better impression of what's going on inside the company.

Personally, any company with a full-on "HR department", is too big to treat its employees as human beings, so it's likely too big for me to work for. But to each their own.

The only one I think is dead wrong in that link is the mention of progressive discipline. That's necessary for a company unless they don't mind paying a severance to people who they have to dismiss with cause. Depending on your jurisdiction, that may not be an issue at all- everybody gets a severance, even if dismissed with cause. Some firms are happy to pay people off even if they, say, catch an employee stealing or committing fraud- something that would be instant cause for dismissal without requiring progressive discipline. But in a lot of cases, you do need to ratchet up the attention to a particular employee's problem in a systematic manner. And sometimes, it works- you don't just save yourself a severance, you "repair" something that's wrong with an employee by getting them the attention they need to get the issue resolved. So a mention of having a progressive discipline policy wouldn't be an instant reason for me to run out of an interview. But if the employee handbook mentioned compelled, uncompensated overtime? I'd hightail it out of there in mid-sentence!

 

[KENAT]

To the OP, one way to know you are working too many hours is when you do things like pay for gas, then drive off without pumping the gas.

I've now done that twice in the last couple of months - 3 times overall since I've worked here.

I drove to work the long way today so I could hit a different gas station - too embarrassing to go back to that one.

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[allgoodnamestaken]

One of the best things to happen to me was not getting a job with a large heavy civil firm whose name starts with a K, because I have a few friends who did and none of them stayed for more than a year with similar complaints of being taken advantage of on the basis of overtime.

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

allgoodnames: I also got a job offer with a company starting with a K. Great offer money-wise for a starting engineer and they even were up front about the hours required (60+). I thought it was fair but could easily see how I would get burnt and passed on the offer for a small consulting firm. Don't regret that decision in the slightest.

Professional and Structural Engineer (ME, NH, MA)
American Concrete Industries

http://www.americanconcrete.com

 

[allgoodnamestaken]

There is a difference between 60+ and 72, I think. Especially if that 72 is "the new norm". It's like going on a blind date with someone who says they weight "110+ lbs" and having to move to go on that date. If you show up and they're 200 lbs (technically 110+!), you're going to feel like you've been taken advantage of, and you wouldn't be wrong.

 

[berkshire]

Moltenmetal,
On the subject of progressive discipline, I found that as an employer, this tool gets used most, as a means of ratcheting up attention to tardy employees, more than others. Although I feel that in the case of the OP some tardiness could be justified if he is putting in those kind of hours.
With other offenses like stealing, other than pens and paperclips , the offender should be shown the door at once.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

 

[GregLocock]

I signed a contract. It said 38 hours a week. What game are you mugs playing?

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[HamburgerHelper]

I never understood employers asking employees to put in that much overtime. Productivity drops off really fast after 45-50 hours and you end up rushing to get something out with the very good chance that it likely will have to be redone or revised later to fix mistakes and the only thing that you did was hit some deadlines on someone's kant chart.

 

[Lomarandil]

Hamburger, I don't know if "kant chart" was intentional or a freudian slip, but I'm stealing that.

 

[ornerynorsk]

Bloody good, Kenat! You mean they didn't send the sheriff after you to remind that you hadn't actually taken on fuel?

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[verymadmac]

You could just try say in aloud voice in front of everyone "my brain is broke, I am going home" when you it the 10 hour mark and see what happens!
It sounds like a piss take but ...

Burnout is far worse than being fired, you might never be able to bring your self to work as an engineer again.

 

[KENAT]

Strangely enough no.

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[rotw]

It is my experience that if you really enjoy what you do, you tend "not to count too much" the hours you spend at work. I understand 10 hours is excessive but this may help to mitigate. [oh by the way, to whoever feels the temptation to comment: I said it can MITIGATE).

Coming to the 12 hours...

ok so if you see people jumping from the 5th floor (without parachute), you say I'll do the same or I will do even better: I'll jump from the 7th floor...?

so unless your are putting on orbit some amazing piece of art... a huge step for mankind....working 72 hours/week is just pure madness.

 

[monkeydog]

rotw,

Isn't the genesis of an amazing piece of art a little bit of madness?
And putting something in orbit and a huge step for mankind is running on adrenaline and a focused purpose.

 

[moltenmetal]

monkeydog: working 72 hours per week for a for-profit enterprise for no substantial or meaningful compensation isn't madness, and has nothing to do with art- it's just a very poor life and business decision. Lots of people make that decision, and it has nothing to do with art. It has, in many cases, to do with a bug in human nature, which others exploit for their own profit. Other times it's a response to perceived economic circumstance.

 

[WKTaylor]

A few things I learned about this situation over the years.

IF You work for a mad-man who is a workaholic, then they expect the same of others... simply because 'they work-like-that'. These folks have no life and EXPECT the same dedication from their subordinates.

Many studies have shown that ~50-to-56-hrs/week is a sustainable pace... If employees are motivated and are supported in various ways [IE: 'no-fault' time-off for emergencies, etc] and are treated professionally. However, even the best employees work deteriorates proportionally above 56-hrs/week... its just not sustainable... especially under professional stress. Even combat troops have to be relieved [rotated] every 2-to-3 months for R&R, so they maintain a sharp edge... a dull edge can lead to catastrophe. WARNING: One of the aspects You face is on-the-job safety... which can be grossly affected by exhaustion... especially across-the-board.

Suggestion. When my office over-seas required 12-hr/day coverage, here is how two of us engineers worked out the schedule, IE: We staggered our hours for full coverage...

We worked 9-hr days, which included 1-hour lunch break. I worked from 0600 to 1500; my partner worked from 0900 to 1800. During this time there was always someone available. IF push-came-to-shove we had no problem extending our work-day and working sporadically into the weekend, on-call. Generally speaking from 0600--0800 I was rarely busy... and like-wise my partner was rarely busy from 1600--1800. When one of us was on vacation, the remaining guy changed his work schedule to 0730--1630... with presumption that over-time would be relatively minimal to factor-in, was relatively 'fair' between us and was acceptable to site leaders.

I suspect that You could show how work demand is minimal during the early and late edges of this weird working-shift of Yours... and show 'good-enough coverage' by just one of you being around early and late.

Now, IF work-site managers won't help You by adjusting shifts and liberalizing emergency time [especially during off-demand hours], then You will turn-out just like a friend of mine who tried to handle a mad-man shift similar-to-this... and was a basket case after just 6-months... and quit after 9-months when his wife and several of us intervened.

My Dad once stated the military situation he was often-in like this: "GIs will give their ALL in blood/sweat/tears/life... So when it safe to stand-down, get-out-of-their way and let the guys have a break. They deserve it."

NOTE.
IF the managers You work for are royal-*ss-h*les, then bail-out... You are a tool to be used-up and thrown-away when worn out.
IF this is the case, then consider this: Naaaa better not say what would happen to these managers if they were military superiors in Combat and acted like this...


Regards, Wil Taylor

o Trust - But Verify!
o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown]
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion"]
o Learn the rules like a pro, so you can b

 

[GregLocock]

WKT: Fragging, it's the ultimate 360 degree review.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[berkshire]

The new overtime laws may change this scenario, or at least have the principals scrambling madly to find ways around it.
See attached.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

 

[KENAT]

http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/17/pf/overtime-rule-change-paycheck-effects/index.html[/URL]]Right now, if you're a salaried worker who makes between $23,660 and $47,476 and have some managerial duties you are considered "exempt" from overtime pay. Under the new rules, such low-paid managers would be reclassified as "non-exempt.

I'd think the $47,476 probably excludes most engineers in most areas, but newbies and/or lower cost areas may be impacted.

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[Panther140]

I worked those hours when I was 18 years old just starting off in the iron foundry. I probably made more money that year than you will tho. You agreed to 60 hours per week. Work 60 hours per week regularly, occasionally step up when you need to do more. Be a team player without being stepped on.


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