Negotiate for severance?

[floattuber]

It seems that a company I interviewed with recently likes me and wants to go ahead with the next step. I've been reading up on salary negotiation and the book suggests I ask for 6 months of severance pay, especially since I'm moving to a new state and a change in career. However, the book is mainly geared for business people, not engineers. Is severance pay a typical thing that engineers negotiate for? If so, how much is fair?

The company is small and has acquired/merged with quite a few companies over the years and has just completed another merge last week. This makes me a bit nervous about my job security.

 

[GregLocock]

I've had two jobs that involved interstate or international moves, in which the deal was that if after three moneths either party was unsatisfied then that would be the end of it, ie they'd eat the relocation costs, and I'd have to figure out what my next move was.

Well, good luck if you can get more than that, golden hellos seem few and far between in engineering, unless you are an ex-Boeing guy.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[Beggar]

I did negotiate a 6-month severance with my last job. They resisted but I was in a relatively strong negotiating position.

Six months is a very long severance and I'd be quite surprised if you got it, especially with a small company.

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[heieup]

You're probably better off asking for relocation benefit as it seems more reasonable than the 'golden hello' to recruiters.

 

[Beggar]

I wish I could edit my post. I submitted before I was finished.

Anyway, you really need to consider the strength of your negotiating position.

Typically, the details of a severance arrangement is a standard company policy and not something typically negotiated (the common exception being executives).

I think it might put a bad taste in their mouth and could even cause them to reconsider/retract their offer. It's sort of like you're starting out expecting to fail. It just doesn't communicate the kind of attitude I'd like to see.

+ Who approached whom in this situation?
+ Are you a specialist and a great fit for them or are there other people out there that might also be well suited for this job?
+ How badly do you want the job?

I think you'd be better off trying negotiate vacation than severance.


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[floattuber]

Thanks. It sounds like it's not a good idea for me to ask about it. They did say relocation money is available, but we haven't talked about the specifics.

 

[Beggar]

Relocation *should be* expected. It should provide for a pre-start trip, 30 days temporary lodging and meals, and shipping of your household goods. A good package would also include assistance selling a home and closing costs on a new home. With a small company, though, that's probably not going to happen.

Whatever you do, be sensitive in your negotiations. Several years ago, I received a job offer that was lower than I expected. I wrote a letter asking them to consider matching my prior wage and explained why I considered it justified. They responded by pulling the offer altogether. In all other cases, I've found companies willing to negotiate but smaller firms can be kind of touchy.

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[sms]

Hmmm now what does that say about a company that would rather pull their offer than match your current salary?

-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

 

[HVACctrl]

Severance would be a weird request in my opinion.

However, a company that acts offended or plays the stickler when it comes to negotiating salary would put a bad taste in my mouth. The only way I would think they should act rude towards a request to negotiate salary would be if their offer were way above market, more than you initially indiacted you were looking to make, etc...

In most cases, I have been able to squeeze a few extra thousand out of them. Once, I tried and they were VERY cordial about saying no. I took the job anyway.

But I couldn't imagine negotiating for severance up front. However, I wouldn't mind being in a position to be able to do so. I wish it were more common. I'd like to see the job seekers get a little more pull in things like that.

Ed

http://www.engineerboards.com

 

[ajack1]

Am I correct in thinking severance is the amount of notice/ pay a company has to give an employee if they wish to terminate a contract? If so is it a two-way thing, does the employee have to give the same amount of notice should they wish to leave?

In the UK at any level above the most basic this would be part of the negotiations, six months would be normal in a higher management position or a very specialised role, but high for most positions, this nearly always works both ways.

In the USA is it also normal to have bonuses/ profit share/ share options, medical insurance, company pension contributions, relocation, company car/ petrol card as part of standard negotiations?

 

[IRstuff]

> Usually as a courtesy. My two previous jobs, I gave 1 month notice.

> US. depends on the situation and the job. A cookie-cutter job has little leeway in negotiation. A startup job might be more flexible.

TTFN

 

[ornerynorsk]

Get it in writing, or cash. Most companies nowadays are very amnesiatic when it comes to promises made.

 

[HVACctrl]

Good point ornerynorsk,
I've had the following things happen in which companies either lied, changed their story, exagerrated or just pulled the bait and switch:
1) I was promised a certain percentage of sales commission (verbally) then, after doing an excellent job, the sales manager got greedy and decided to keep the lion's share for himself and give me a small piece of cheese.
2) One comapany's benefit was a health plan in which they and I would pay half of my policy premium. My "half" was so expensive it was as if I would be paying the whole thing. There is no way that I believe that what they said was my "half" would really be only half of the premium- it had to be close to, if not, the whole premium.
3) We engineers were promised (again, verbally) a chunk of the savings when we engineered a job so well that it came in under the estimate. We worked, even on holidays and weekends to make this happen. While we knew we came in way under, the company claimed construction costs and other issues made us hit closer to the actual estimate.

From what I have seen, there can be instances of greed and trickery. At the very least, maybe their intentions were good, but for whatever reason they couldn't follow through with their promises.

But how do you hold their feet to the fire and make them put explicite agreements in writing without coming off as an antagonistic person out to create a conflict?

Ed

http://www.engineerboards.com

 

[Beggar]

But how do you hold their feet to the fire and make them put explicite agreements in writing without coming off as an antagonistic person out to create a conflict?

That's the hard part...

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[HVACctrl]

Maybe we can explore methods that other have used to do just that- get a company to put things in writing that they normally would only be inclined to discuss verbally.

As an aside, my wife owns her own company. A partner company of hers (whose owners mentor her and her business partner) advised her not to put too much in writing when recently an employee chose to look for greener pastures. He (the mentor from the partnering company) told my wife to talk to the soon-to-be ex-employeenabout the finalization of pay and commission verbally. Any further questions she could defer to the original employment contract.

So I know for a fact that companies don't always like to put too much in writing.

Ed

http://www.engineerboards.com

 

[SomptingGuy]

What is actually meant by "severance pay" in Americanglish? Is it paid by the old employer or the new one? The phrase sounds too much like "redundancy pay" that people in the UK hope to get when fired.

 

[HVACctrl]

I THINK it is this:

Sometimes, companies will give an employee several months or some other amount of their regular pay when they are fired or laid off. Its called severance pay. Say an employee is laid off next week. The company might give him a check worth about 3 months of his pay as they let him go to ease the firing and to give him a cushion while looking for new employment.

I think the original poster meant that while negotiating with the new company for whom he will work, he also wants to negotiate, up front, the amount of money (severance pay) the company will give him should they fire him in the future.

Sounds odd to me. But I sure would like to be in a position to be able to negotiate such a thing. I guess one must have to have a strong position to be able to do that. Thinking back, I believe a salesman at one of my old companies had such a thing negotiated up front. He seemd to be extremely intellectual. Maybe his sales background, his experience and his intellect gave him the ability to make that happen.

Ed

http://www.engineerboards.com

 

[controlnovice]

Or maybe we should start an Engineer's Union so we don't have to worry about severance....

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[HVACctrl]

I don't know if you're serious or not, but some things about that may not be a bad idea. The only thing is that would probably add more fuel to the fire of the engineering profession becoming more and more of a commodity. I think it would drop off farther down in public opinion- down to the level of those who need to use and abuse unionism to survive.

http://www.engineerboards.com

 

[SomptingGuy]

Ah I see. What an odd idea. A bit like when you take a driving test in the US (IL at least) and you need to know the fines for various offences to pass it (why talk about being fired during an interview?). I was seriously thinking of writing N/A rather than choosing from the options, but thought better of it.

In the UK it's common to get 1 or 1.5 week's pay (tax free) per year of employment rather than some fixed amount (the 1 week might even be by law??). Of course if you're fired and lead out of the building, you'll get your notice period paid (typically 3 months for an engineer).