Network Problems

[dsmith1022]

We have several users that share files across a network. Each user has a working directory. Every one shares files between each other’s working directories as well as a “read only” directory of “released” documents. Our network connection is 100 MB. Our typical assemblies are between 300-900 parts. We are trying to get the most speed out of the network that we can. First of all does anyone work in a similar fashion to us? If there is someone similar to this have you ever timed your opening time? I’m trying to figure out if our network is typical or if something is wrong.

Thanks

 

[Standing]

dsmith1022
We used to have the same problem you are experiencing. It would take forever to open a drawing. We switch to fiber optics at 1 Gbps line and 1.7 gig computers. Some of us are on 100 Mb lines with 733 computers. They cannot open large drawings or assemblies then will get time out errors.
Bradley

 

[dsmith1022]

Bradley,
Do you open your assemblies light weight. We are considering a 1000Mbs Switch and have tried one out. It doesn't load the assembly any faster than the 100Mbs connection. We can't figure out why. We all have at least 1.8 Pentiums. The 1000Mbs switch has been tested and is working correctly. What type of network/server do you have.
Thanks,
Donnie

 

[EdDanzer]

Your problem might be the server is over loaded. To find out do a performance check in task manager on the server when some one is loading, and it is going slow. If all you are doing is storing files, use a network attached hard drive. We have had one for several years and loaded a 2000 part assemble to a 500 Xeon in less than 5 minutes.

 

[Standing]

Donnie,
Opening our assemblies in lightweight depends on what we are going to do. Most of the time I do not, I am looking for mate errors. The difference in load time is 30 seconds lightweight, to about 5 minutes non-lightweight. I do not know what server we have. The line from our machines is cat5 and from the switch to the server is fiber optics. We do keep our files on the server while working on them, not the C:\ drive.
We cannot open our large assemblies on the slower computers, with 538 Meg of memory.
Bradley

 

[Standing]

Donnie,
Our server is Compaq DL380 G2, 512 meg ram, hard drive is Raid 5, 36 Gig. Bradley

 

[EdDanzer]

For more information on network attached storage check this:

http://www.dmreview.com/editorial/dmdirect/dmdirect_article.cfm?EdID=6573&issue=040403&record=3

 

[jackboot]

We do exactly what you do and we curse like sailors when working on large assemblies.

We installed a 1 Ghz network - and while the problem didn't go away - it got a lot better. In order not to comprise assemblies with "controlled" models we have to do this. I work around this by sometimes copying most of the files to my local drive and then move them back and reopen one time to straighten out the confused references.

If you come up with a workable solution - you may be the first to do so.

jackboot

 

[jwalz]

I am having similar issues when trying to open large floor plans. File size is 62M with approximately 8500 components.
The computer that it is running on is a
3GHz XEON/533 processor
2G RAM
nVidia, Quadro4 900XGL video card with 128M RAM
and a 36G SCSI hard drive
SolidWorks 2003 SP2.1
Windows XP Pro SP1
Both SolidWorks and the drawings are running on the hard drive. To open the file when it doesn't crash or complain that it has run out of system resources takes at least 20 minutes. SW tech support is suggesting that XP is the issue and that it will not allow any one application to use more than 1.8G of memory. Has anyone else had any experience with this? It sounds like others have had great success with large drawings with machines that are not quite this beefy.
Thanks for your help,
Janet

 

[josephv]

Hello all,

My advice to everyone....

Get PDM/Works

Why? Because you need it to handle data, and because it copies the files to your hard drive when you need them, and then copies them back to the network when you are finished with them.

Your hard drive will always be faster than the network.

cheers,

Joseph

 

[Standing]

Joseph is right. We use PDM/Works and it does a lot more than speed things up. It has saved us alot time in other ways. A very good investment.

Bradley

 

[jwalz]

Joeseph amd Bradley,
Is PDM/Workd going to help me with with handling such large drawing files without crashing the program?

Janet

 

[Standing]

jwalz,
No, PDM/Works will not always help with opening large drawing files without crashing. We still have crashes and some of our computers cannot open large assemblies at all. PDM/Works is only part of the overall picture. We went to a faster server, faster computers with more memory and fiber optics. (Please do not ask for specs, I was not involved) This has helped, although I still crash at times. We are also looking for ways to help the smaller computers open large drawings. What the drafting department has been doing while we work on a better solution, is to take snap shots of SolidWorks models and importing them into AutoCAD. I know we lose the parametric ability. A company has to do what a company has to do. Our goal is to use SolidWorks for all of our drawings.


Bradley

 

[EdDanzer]

Jwalz,
I don’t think PDM works will do anything but increase your problems by adding an additional task for your machine to deal with.
Try looking at what different programs are running. Unless it is necessary for SolidWorks, kill it, that should include any anti-virus software.
We had the first DEC Alpha 433 running Windows in the State of Washington some years ago. The machine was $15,000.00, a 200 Pentium was the fastest Intel at that time and cost $3,000.00. It was purchased to run SolidWorks doing a 2500 piece assembly, and the time savings gave us a 9 month payback. This machine was ugly at first, it had a RAM chip that randomly failed. DEC had 2 and 3 machines at our facility for over a month. To correct this machine we remove all the RAM except 1 chip, start and ran the machine to see if it worked on smaller problems, then add another chip until the problem chip was found. This took a while because the 1 chip would only fail intermittently.
I used this same method on 3 different Intel boxes to find that they don’t work well with more RAM than 10 times the cache.
One of the problem machines, a 933 Dell with 2 G RAM, we sent performance information to Microsoft to determine if it was a Windows 2000 problem. It turned out to be an Intel problem, the CPU didn’t have enough cache to deal with the RAM.
From my experience, check the RAM first, this should only take a few hours to do. If that doesn’t help contact Microsoft about sending performance logs to have them evaluate the cause of the problem. The other possibility, order a Dell box, load up SolidWorks and test it. If it doesn’t work send it back under their 30 day return policy.
My experience with SW2003, it is no better than SW97, very expensive to use compared to SW2001+.

Ed Danzer

 

[josephv]

Hello Janet,

Since this thread is about network problems, I would say PDM/Works will help you only if your problems are network related.

If you are crashing while opening from the hard drive, then you got a whole different problem.

Please send your files to SolidWorks support, since crashing can be caused by many different factors including file corruption.

There are several work arounds for speeding up drawings, you may want to use RapidDraft, put your section views on one sheet (but don't make that the sheet that is active when you open your drawing), you can suppress detail (like threads, extruded text and cosmetic fillets), suppress internal components.

cheers,

Joseph

 

[dsmith1022]

Thanks for all your help. We are considering PDMWorks as well. I know that will speed things up considerably. I guess the bottom line is will it be worth our while to upgrade to a 1000Mbs network switch. Even with PDMWorks I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, that it will be slow to check out/open a 300 pc. assembly. As I said we've tested the 1000Mbs connection and it's just not clear that it's any faster opening. We too have some problems with crashes. But I can't figure out if it's network related or not. It seems like a strong possibility.

 

[stormrider]

dsmith1022,

PDMWorks will help in loading files faster bacause you checkout files to your hard drive. PDMWorks, it's self, doesn't do anything for enhancing how fast files open. It's a data management system. It store your files in a vault on a network drive for everyone to tap into. You check files out into your hard drive and work from there. By working in your hard drive and not on the network, you won't get affected by network speed issues.

A good test to see if your network speed is sufficent is to time how long it takes to open a file from a network drive and then from your hard drive (making sure ALL files related to the one you are opening are on your hard drive!)
This will give you a good comparison.

Now be aware that network speed will vary a lot, depending on what time of the day it is, how many people are at work at the time, maybe someone is downloading a large file, etc.
This is why working on your hard drive is the preferred choice.

Here is a breakdown of what hardware in your computer effect what functions (assuming you are working from your hard drive):

When loading up a file, it's all CPU speed. (You, of course, need the required amount of memory to open your file to begin with)

After your file is open, all functions like rebuilding, moving around, etc. are all the video card. A video card with and on-board CPU are the preferred choice. This keeps the computer from having to go back and forth to your CPU for rebuild power. (nVidia, Quadro4 900XGL video card with 128M RAM is a great one!)

If the network is ultimately the culprit, there can be many areas that can be the bottle neck. This can only require a network person with experience in speeding up networks. I've run across many IS people who 'think' they know how to deal with this issue, but have had no prior experience and it showed.

Sorry for the lengthy post,

Stormrider

 

[dsmith1022]

Thanks Stormrider,

We've done some testing just like you suggested. I can open a 300 piece assembly (fully resolved) in around 20 seconds on my PC. We've actually tweeked the 100mb network connection and are able to open the assembly in around 60 seconds if all the files are 1) put into one folder and 2) the "search file locations for external referances" switch is turned off. If the "search file locations for external referances" switch is turned on and it searches the 4 locations that the files may be in then the time goes up to 2 minutes. I have also tested a faster machine with a better grapics card and more ram. It seems to make around a 10 - 15% improvement (just a few seconds). The 1000mb connection also adds about a 10-15% improvement on top of it.

Just for info, I do try to use some of the large assembly functions that SW has built in but it always seems that when it's all said and done that I resolve everything anyway.

We are currently evaluating some PDM options as well as changing some of our current working practices. I think it is getting better.

Donnie