New engineer feeling like failure 18

[huskybuilder]

I'm having an extremely difficult time at work right now, guys. I'm a little over a year into my first job after college. I graduated with a civil engineering degree and am working as a field engineer. Right now I'm administering a state transportation contract and have never felt more incompetent or like more of a failure. The job was only about $500,000 to begin with, but the project is running way over budget (like 20%). I'm having to learn ALL of the state reporting/materials/documentation/specs all at once and try to pull the project together.

Besides trying to actually learn how this type of project is built, I'm expected to do all of the paperwork necessary. I literally spend about 15-16 hours every day, and usually about 12 hours each weekend trying to seem like I somewhat know what I'm doing.

I'm trying as hard as I can but it's still not good enough. Sometimes, trying our best just doesn't cut it. I was valedictorian in HS and magna cum laude in college, but I realize book smarts don't always equate to ability either. I like to think this type of work just doesn't suit me, but how bad I'm failing makes me question my engineering judgment overall.

So what are people's thoughts? Are these kinds of mistakes and stumbling blocks common, or is my ability as an engineer questionable? I just can't continue failing like this. My confidence is rock bottom and that further degrades my ability to make decisions...

 

[steellion]

It seems like you are not getting the mentoring that a young engineer needs, which is not a great situation. Just do your best to make the most of it.

Also, make sure that your solutions are both correct and efficient. If you're working 14 hour days daily, there is a hole somewhere... either they have given you way too much work, or you're taking too long to do it. We had an employee a couple of years ago who sunk 60 hours into a project doing a finite element model of a small tower on top of a roof. Should have taken less than a day. He didn't last here long.

 

[dhengr]

Huskybuilder:
I think you said your direct supervisor is doing essentially the same job as you are, but on a bigger job, and is very busy also. They have no incentive to see you or your job fail. Maybe they don’t even know how you are struggling since nothing has broken or failed yet, except your self confidence. Your boss should know your situation, and you’ve told us, but not him. Tell him you need to talk and would like to buy him a beer some afternoon, after work. That might be the best few hours, out of your 16 hour day, that you have spent in the last few months. I think you said he was a sharp guy, you have to turn him into your first, best, mentor at the moment, and make these relaxed meetings a regular event, just to kick back a bit and learn from him.

Wow... There’s an incredible amount of good advice in the posts above. I didn’t realize a bunch of engineers could be so darn touchy-feely. This is a darn good thread about an unfortunate situation, which I’ll bet you’ll get through with flying colors, because many of us have made the same journey, and are still standing and engineering.

 

[dvd]

Huskybuilder,

I think that you would be happier in a design-type position. You seem to be a person who tends to get swept up in details. There is more black-and-white in design work than in project work. Project work to me is like watching a slow-motion train wreck: you have no control over some of the screw-ups that happen, but all of the responsibility for them. I recommend that you get involved in an area where you are responsible for your own triumphs and failures, based on what you know and your own work ethic. Not everyone should be a manager or a leader.

 

[huskybuilder]

hahor, what do you mean about people feeling ignored might teach me a lesson? You mean coworkers or contractors?

FACS and KENAT, I hear you about paralysis of analysis. I think that's a fairly common problem for some people, mainly perfectionists. I know I've suffered from it in the past, but I think I've been improving.

dhengr, I agree it's a great thread with a lot of good advice. I think I will take your advice sometime. He's a good guy to sit down and have a beer with.

dvd, you basically expressed in your last post what I've been telling myself all along. That's exactly the sentiment I feel, but I didn't know if it's a rational one or not. I almost feel like I need to develop this better sense of 'good enough' that's been talked about extensively in the thread if I'm really going to grow to be a better engineer. I've told myself before, I need to do work where I'M in control of it, not observing, inspecting, directing other's work. I love the quote about the slow motion train wreck. Describes many construction situations to a tee.

 

[peaktop]

"The hardest people to work with are the straight 'A' students that have no concept of balance" is not "talking about lowering your standards" as "My kid can beat up your honor student" is not talking about lowering your standards.

 

[FACS]

Huskybuilder,
I sounds to me as if you are learning enough and are aware of your surroundings. I think you will be fine. Judging by your responses; you seem smart enough to pass by the irrelevant analogies and comparisons that are being thrown around.

Don't feel inadequate, feel inexperienced and absorb what you see and hear.

Charlie

http://www.facsco.com

 

[SMIAH]

Off topic:

@ beej67

It is that bad in the US now? "Tough all around".

I just saw an article saying that The Labor Department predicts that job growth for civil engineers will be about 24 percent over the next decade or so—well above average.
I guess it hasn't started yet.

 

[peaktop]

It's interesting how "teamwork" doesn't refute concerns about lowered standards. This is especially apparent when teamwork is combined with "balance," as if positive teamwork balances negative low standards. The argument is "We're not lowering standards, but, even if we were, you need to be a 'team player' to 'get much done."' The teamwork rebuttal would be more persuasive if, instead, it were argued that teamwork actually enhances quality, reduces errors, or raises standards.

As for the myth of "paralysis of analysis," the Tacoma Narrows bridge, Three Mile Island, the Challenger explosion, thalidomide, the collapse of the Hyatt Regency walkway, the failure of the South Fork Dam, etc., etc., were *not* caused by some "stubborn," "straight 'A' students" who were "full of themselves," just wanted to overanalyze the problem, and "be perfect all the time." I'll betcha though there were a lot of "team players" involved who knew "when to settle" to get things done.

 

[beej67]

I think you guys are arguing way too much about perfectionism.

We all do as good as we can. I gathered Husky's problem was not that he'd set his bar too high, but rather he'd set his bar as high as any of us ordinarily would, and doesn't have the guidance to reach it as a relatively new engineer due to the way his company has set itself up.





The first question we really need to know, is whether your boss is approachable about this situation.

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http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[csd72]

The mechanical guys can afford to spend hundreds of hours on a machine part that will be reproduced over and over again.

Structural and Civil engineers have to design each building bespoke.

They are very different situations.

There is no such thing as a perfect building, but they all still work. There are many things that will still work perfectly fine without being perfect.

The trick is to know what they are.

 

[rb1957]

approaching the OP from a different direction ... why do you think you're failing ?

the project being over budget is completely your fault. sure maybe an experienced PE could beat up on the guys doing the work (my guess), but fresh out of school, you're fresh meat in a shark tank.

forms not getting filled out right ... no "real" problem as far as i can see, others are catching the corrections, and you're learning.

my biggest concern is what sort of technical over-sight is expected of you ? fresh out of school, you'll only be learning how the real world works. has someone else stamped the work and you're over-seeing the project ?? someone else is inspecting the work ?? (if they are, walk around with them, see what they're looking at).

the "sink or swim" model is designed i think to quickly see who can adapt to a Challenging situation, who can quickly gain experience "at the coal face" so they can move quickly up the ladder, and who can resolve problems by finding their own solutions, asking for help, and not "burying the bodies".

 

[csd72]

as a graduate you know nothing, if your boss does not know that then the fault is theirs.

As a fresh graduate the most that can be expected is that you dont make the same mistake twice. Use the opportunity to learn and grow, ask loads of questions before you get to the stage that you are expected to know it all.

Everyone makes mistakes but they tend to get smaller and more subtle with experience.

Good luck with the rest of your career and dont get disheartened. We have all been there.

 

[KENAT]

Just to clarify, I wasn't specifically talking about analysis paralysis in my last post. The things I find to divert my attention when overwhelmed by a task aren't necessarily analysis.

That said, there is such a thing as analysis paralysis but there's also such a thing as shooting from the hip and being way off mark. Often times, erring on the side of slightly more analysis is better than just going with your first guess, especially if you're inexperienced.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[huskybuilder]

beej67, my boss is always willing to answer questions. The thing is, I need to make some decisions myself. He knows I'm struggling with how bad the job is going (in my opinion anyway) and doesn't seem terribly concerned. I would say he's concerned about my well being and how the project is affecting me professionally. That's a big help.

The thing is, I don't even care about my own 'well being' as much as how this affects our company's rep with the state and the other municipality we're working in right now. I know I have to put in tough times when I'm starting out in the working world, but it sucks to put in all this effort to be making seemingly little progress.

rb1957, I'm 'running' the job I guess you could say. I'm in charge of inspection, quantities, plan clarifications, field adjustments, etc. The plan was stamped by a PE who has no involvement at this point.

Thanks everybody for all of the responses!

 

[csd72]

huskybuilder,

From what you are saying here, you sound like the kind of graduate that I would employ at the drop of a hat.

It is very easy to be enthusiastic and effective when everything is going right but, in my opinion, what makes a great engineer is how they handle it when things go wrong.

Jobs do go wrong even when you have done everything right.

I have worked with a number of engineers that were very capable but who had never had to work their way out of a problem like this, I am always concerned at how they would react when things did go wrong.

 

[huskybuilder]

Hmm, I think I'm officially burned out. I feel done. I've had a constant headache the past two days, even on a Saturday morning when I should be able to sleep in and relax, I woke up at 3 AM thinking about work things. How do I approach management about this without seeming whiny?

I've been reading about employee burnout and one website listed about 15 criteria. Every single one applied to me. Is there a way to discuss this without jeopardizing my career?

 

[csd72]

There is nothing whiny about bringing this to your employers attention.

 

[vthomidis]

Well, from what I can understand your main issue stands on your attitude.

Be sure that your boss really knows and understands the difficult situation of the project, surely is not the first time for him and for the company.
( projects running over budget especially in state contracts may be rather commonplace )

I don't believe that anybody should expect from you being fresh out of college to reach "perfection" - it is obvious you are trying hard and doing your best.

I would also propose :
- Have a friendly talk with your boss over a beer after work
- Don't hesitate to "share" your worries with coworkers (even subordinates), you will be surprised by how other people will understand - don't think you are alone on that.
More generally speaking, "the sink or swim" method is regretfully followed by some companies especially in "hard" times....

 

[johnchrc]

Would you like your job if you had the experience? If so, you just do the best you can. DO NOT BURN YOURSELF OUT WORKING THOSE HOURS! If you have to do that then find another job.

My first job out of school was a project manager job. It sounded cool and payed well but it did not match my skill set. Exactly 1 year after sratring I went into the r&D design field and love it. I felt much more at home and was able to contribute right away.

By the way, the first job, where I felt lost, offered me my job back should I decide to return. I did not but I guess I was doing better than I had expected.

Lots of good posts here about perfectionism, etc... I would go to your employer and ask for a performance review and then decide if you need a career change.

 

[MagnetDave]

huskybuilder,

My turn!

As far as burnout, because I've been there plenty of times. The best answer I have is "get a hobby," but let me elaborate. You need to find some downtime and let yourself recharge. You are constantly emptying the tank, and never taking time to refill it. I have variously filled the need for fun with poker, cooking, the design and construction of medieval artillery, and women (as available). But the point is that you need to find something you can engage in because you want to FOR ITS OWN SAKE, that preferably involves no computers, and simply give your brain and (at the risk of sounding like a hippy) spirit to relax. If work is invading your sleep (SO been there) you are clearly overdosing and your brain's ablative armor is wearing away.

The next thing is that whatever else you do (and it MUST be something you enjoy for its own sake) it has to have time made for it, and that time must be inviolate. I understand, completely, the desire to more hours and energy in, because there is always more dirt in the mountain. Hell, I've even done the math in my head at how big an edge one accumulated hour per day over the life of the project will give. But you have to realize that the quality of time you're putting in is now being affected by poor maintenance of your internal psychological machinery.

This is part of the value of family - they force you to balance your life, because you have people whose needs have enough primacy in your mind to compete with work.

Last thing - on your project, get out your razor. My experience in life is that people will work with a guy who delivers late, over-budget successes. The guy who immaculately documents an on-time, under budget failure no one needs. Figure out your conditions for success, and focus relentlessly on those. Everything else will be done if and only if it supports that goal. This should mean either shaving away a lot of tasks, or doing some marginal stuff here and there. The ability to say "not worth my time" and "not mission critical" is a HUGE key for engineer. There's a hundred things I can do better than other people in my company, but that's not what I'm hired for, and not where I'm needed. Not that I wouldn't be thrilled for you if your superhuman productivity got it all to happen perfectly - but then what will your next project be, and what will the expectations on you be? You want to do this for a few more years, I think. Your model needs to be sustainable.

Oh, and, in the future: start raising hell BEFORE you start the project at how bad it's going be.