New Engineer working with Code:::How to Understand Edition changes 2

[kurz82]

I am a new engineer charged with understanding some of the changes between editions of the code, specifically parts of Section VIII Div 1 and Section II, Part D. Can anyone point me in the direction of a resource that can explain not only the changes, but the rationale behind them? I'm researching changes especially that occured between 1995 and 1998, but I sense that they may be a bit more far reaching.

Thanks in advance!

Kurz82

 

[davefitz]

You might try contacting someone on the code committees, as listed in the front of the code, or the ASME secretary for those comittees at ASME.org .

I understnd that there is to be released this month ( Jun 04) a complete rewrite of Section VIII div 2, so the minor annual changes will seem insignificant compared to this rewrite.

 

[lostsailor]

To the best of my knowledge, aside from the Code committee minutes and their documented recommendations/proposals, published explanations of revisions and accompanying rationales to the Code aren't generally circulated. The best way to to discern that type of information would be to attend the meetings or, as davefitz suggested, contact someone on who sits on the committee you have an interest in.

 

[metengr]

In addition to the information above, if you are involved with fabrication or repair of boiler and pressure vessels, your Authorized Inspection Agency (AIA) may be able to provide you with information on changes to the ASME B&PV code. Many of the AIA's have representatives that either attend or sit on ASME committees. Our AIA provides a nice write-up regarding code changes.

 

[davefitz]

You can also post the message on the forum :ASME ( mechancial) Code Issues.

As a practical matter, the code changes are based on consensus and voted on in a quasi-political manner.To find an accurate written summary of what the "raionale" was is not easy to find, since the real rationale might be grey areas such as (a) a recent series of accidents or failures (b) a pending major lawsuit (c) competitive issues, espescially related to other int'l codes (d) and recent technical innovations , such as the impact of finite elements on calcualtion methods and dafety factors.

 

[LSThill]

kurz82 (Mechanical)

You may want to take the AI course and the exam:

Course is by the State of Indiana Cheif Inspector, Dan Willis & Allen Clark.

The course have been offerd for 26 years.

http://ccs.goivytech.net/boiler_pressure

Welcome to the Ivy Tech State College Boiler Pressure Vessel Training course scheduled for February 16 - February 28, 2003. I am the course manager and am here to answer any questions that you might have. If you have not already, you may want to go to our website at

http://ccs.goivytech.net/boiler_pressure

for more details on the course and what books you will need to bring with you. There is also information regarding hotels. The instructors (Dan Willis and Allan Clark) will be staying at the Hampton Inn here in Terre Haute and we recommend that students stay there also, if possible. We have reserved a block of rooms, with a special room rate, for this course, should you decide to stay at the Hampton. Evening study sessions and access to instructors tends to be more convenient. Be sure to let your travel agency know to advise the Hampton Inn that you are in the Boiler Pressure class.

I will be sending you information on Terre Haute, In. Since Terre Haute does not have any direct commercial commuter flights, you will need to fly into Indianapolis and take a rental car to the hotel. Class will start on Sunday, February 16, at 1:00 at the Ivy Tech State College Airport Campus located at the Terre Haute International Airport, 501 S. Airport Street, Terre Haute, IN. Maps on our website will show hotel and campus locations.

Should any questions arise in the interim, please let me know.

Joseph P. Zinkovich, Manager
Ivy Tech State College
501 S. Airport Street
Terre Haute, IN 47803
812-298-2363
812-877-1184 - Fax

http://www.goivytech.net

 

[unclesyd]

Unless something has drastically changed It has been my experience in getting a response from a committee member is extremely difficult even when the member works for your company.
As for the AI, most of their written information is considered proprietary and is usually not disseminated in a written form. At one time we had an engineer in central engineering to keep track of and disseminate information concerning any changes in the code or code cases and how they affected us.

Ishtill,
Again I think a little confusion concerning an AI. The AI normally works for the insuring agency and only employees of the agency can be an AI. We have numerous letters confirming this.
The inspector for the state can be an AI under contract as the state inspector or the state inspector is one who had met certain qualifications required by the job description.

I took two design courses on the ASME Code taught by the AI (insurance) and one on NBIC taught by another AI, different company.
Does Indiana allow anyone taking this course to be called an AI and if so in what respect. My point is that the insurance AI is an AI wherever his company has the insurance coverage. Myself and all others that took the courses are just someone who upon completion knew where to look, most of the time.

 

[lostsailor]

For clarification purposes, the AI provides mandated third party inspection services as a representative of the Authorized Inspection Agency (AIA) and not as a representative of the insurance company, although they may be one and the same.

 

[unclesyd]

lostsailor,
The point I'm getting to is in all my years in the business I have never seen an AI that signs off on any papers that didn't belong to an insurance company, mostly ours. This includes onsite and on outside jobs with existing equipment. It fact we have a local contractor that does repair work in their shop and there insurance AI signs off then ours. The onsite primary contractor did use our insurance AI even though his company is not there primary carrier. At one time they got around this by having the contractor take out some insurance with our AI’s company, i would guess just enough to cover the inspection services.

 

[kurz82]

Many Thanks to everyone who helped me to find a solution to this question. I have settled on looking for a synopsis of changes to each edition of BPV code produced by the Hartford Steam Boiler and/or a book printed by CASTI in Canada which is the "Pressure Vessel Code Explained". This is helping me to solve my hardest question...What is the motivation behind many of the changes in the code from 1995-2001? Thanks for the guidance.

 

[jte]

kurz82-

Welcome to the group! I'd encourage you (and others) to go the the "personal profile" button at the top of this page and tell us a little about your background. It'll give some perspective to your posts. You can click on the "jte" at the top of this post to see my profile.

Another source for keeping an eye on upcoming Code developments is to attend the annual ASME Pressure Vessels and Piping conferences. This year it will be near San Diego

http://www.asmeconferences.org/pvp2004/.

Not cheap enough to go at your own expense, but if your employer will cover the expense, I'd encourage you to attend. The conference provides an opportunity to meet some of the folks who are heavily involved with B&PV and piping code development and to hear presentations on ongoing work and anticipated changes to the codes.

jt

 

[deanc]

Can't plug for a firm----but since you mentioned it HSB's Engineering Group puts together a very nice synopsis for each addenda. Think you will find what you need on the website.

http://hsbct.com

If you have problems logging on,contact your AI.

eng-tips is a very good site. Lots of sharp people post here. Just remember the posting are opinions and do your homework.

 

[TomBarsh]

Likely the most important changes in ASME Section VIII Divison 1 in recent years (the period 1995-2001 mentioned by original poster) relate to the reduction in "safety factor" applied to allowable tensile stress. This factor was changed from 4.0 to 3.5 with the A99 Addenda to the 1998 Edition. A number of other code requirements were necessarily changed also; for example, the basis for hydrostatic test pressure was changed from a factor of 1.5 to 1.3, etc.

The reduction in the safety factor was based on the improvements in materials manufacturing processes; ie: vessel materials are today produced to a more reliable, uniform quality than many years ago; and also to meet the competitive pressure of some of the European vessel design codes which have materials safety factors of less than 4.0.

Refer to Section II Part D, Appendix 1, for the definitions of the material allowable stresses (meaning that the safety factor isn't always "3.5").

 

[davefitz]

Hot off the wires:

ASME has a conference at La Jolla, California on 3-4 Jun 04 on the subject of the rewrite of sect VIII div 2. The release of the rewrite has been delayed. Surpisingly, the conference program indicates the rewrite includes some type of equivalence to the Eurpean Union PED ( pressure equipment directive)! This is a major change.

see <

http://www.asme.org/cns/ped/program.shtml>

 

[JoeTank]

You should check out ASME's Mechanical Engineering Magazine and several articles published by the National Board about this issue. When the material design factor was lowered from 4.0 to 3.5 everybody seemed to be writting articles about it. You'll find good technical reasons for the change.


Steve Braune
Tank Industry Consultants

http://www.tankindustry.com

 

[GenB]

I see a lot of confusion on the AI issue,
The course offered is called AI course for many reasons:
you will learn all the requirements to take the NB exam! and possible become an AI if you want to be one.

AI is the Code term as is AIA, so whoever thinks that AI is just the regular machinery inspector is wrong whether works for the same insurance co.(or an inspection agency subsidiary of an Ins. Co.),

States: only those States which have been authorized by the ASME can inspect ASME Code shops under contract,
an exeption is the Nat'l Bd, R stamp which requires also an AI. State or Insurance Co. or both.
ER

 

[kurz82]

deanc -> Just wondering if you had access to HSB's "members only" area. I do not have an AI that I can contact, and I understand the synopses are listed online in that area. I've contacted one of the 3 people from HSB who put the reports together, and he has sent me 2 of them by snail mail. I'd like to get a look at a few more if you or anyone else had a way to get into the site. Thanks for the help!

Great site, and super forum. Thanks All!

Rich

 

[deanc]

kurz82

Rich,I would like to help you-but as an ANI/HSB I do indeed have access-we also have strict instructions not to release the same(customers only). I could get you some paper,if you would provide a year and section.