New Engineers

[EmpiricalEngineer]

Curious to hear what others have to say on this subject. Currently I’m moving into a more leadership level position in the company I work for. Because of this we’ve hired on a VERY new engineer to train.

What are some good tips and tricks you wish you’d had for yourself when you were young? Or what have you done to help young engineers learn their way into this industry?

The individual is very confident in themselves albeit they’ve never had to do any structural calcs or prove out any actual design. How do you approach training engineers that seem to have an unearned sense of knowing it all?

 

[JedClampett]

We have a pretty rigorous QM review system. I always try to have them review an project. That way they can see how we set up drawings, specifications, typical details, etc. They can ask questions on why things are a certain way. They're legitimately billable and feel they're contributing.
I prefer not reviewing calculations (too weedy), so I say if something looks suspicious (a W8 that's 35 ft. long), run an independent calculation on it.

 

[driftLimiter]

Have them do some webinars on some really complex design topics. Sabelli, Malone, performance based design, Light frame/Timber detailing. Hopefully this will propel them into the understanding that there is literally enough out there to continuously learn and therefore you cannot know it all.

And you could have them do drafting for you or other senior engineers for a while so they see the production from that side of things as well.

Job site stuff. I think it's helpful early on to go out there are and see the realitt of it all. Perhaps take them along sometime just for their education.

 

[271828]

"...tips and tricks you wish you'd had for yourself when you were young?"

I wish the three leadership books by Willink and Babin were available when I was young. They came out when I was in my late 40s, and I've learned from them about leadership and professional behavior than from all other sources combined.

As for a younger engineer with a sense of knowing it all: In my experience, the typically assigned tasks and time pressures push young engineers pretty hard. If you've given him or her tasks that are too basic, or given too much time, then that might help to keep the "know it all attitude" alive. Push him or her a bit harder. Just don't push to the point of discouragement.

 

[271828]

I prefer not reviewing calculations (too weedy), so I say if something looks suspicious (a W8 that's 35 ft. long), run an independent calculation on it.

Same here. I worked at one firm that had formal calc checking. It was a monumental waste of time, and often turned into picking on tiny details. As the reviewer, you feel like you must find something. Shouldn't that tributary width be 4.75 ft instead of 4.5 ft?

In the other firms I worked at, which were much larger and worked on a lot harder projects, the process is more like what you described. Someone with experience is looking at the plans for components that are obviously too large or small.

 

[dvd]

"The individual is very confident in themselves albeit they’ve never had to do any structural calcs or prove out any actual design. How do you approach training engineers that seem to have an unearned sense of knowing it all?"

1. You both may need to work on your perceptions of each other.
2. Give the pup some feedback on how to be new in the job - you are willing to tell Eng-Tips colleagues this person's problems, then tell this person, too.
3. Give them something ambiguous to work on with your oversight.

 

[rb1957]

over confidence is a nasty trait, and a very nasty teacher (I know).

humility and a willingness to learn are very good traits.

recognition that your degree is not the font of all knowledge but rather a ticket to the ball game.

I interviewed new grads for many years. The number who could solve a simple (the simplest?) problem is truly depressing. That experience should be enough to wipe the smirk of conceit from anyone's face.

Yes, new grads are full of optimism (they have just completed a significant milestone) but they don't know what they don't know.

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[dik]

I was never very good at organising stuff... so, I stayed away from management. I was a bit of a teknojunkie, and stayed in the trenches.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[FE_struct1]

Here's a few items from my experience:
[ul]
[li]Teach them to always ask two questions about their final design - Is it buildable ? Is it sourceable ? A rebar detail might be superbly efficient but if it can't be built then they'll need to change it.[/li]
[li]It might be good to get your firm to produce some structural drawings with intentional mistakes, then have the new engineer go through these and find the mistakes.[/li]
[/ul]

 

[BigH]

From a geotechnical perspective - send them to the field. Put them on drill rigs to see how the soils really are - not the nice little perfect examples. For structural types, I'd say get them onto a construction project that you are carrying out the inspections for (under a tutor of course) - let them see how things are built vs the "perfect" designs that they did in Uni . . . In other words, let them get their hands dirty - then, in my view, they will have a lot more to offer when it comes to design and understanding of projects than if they just go straight into design using all the fancy analysis tools. That's my view anyway - all the engineers I looked up to started this way . . .

 

[Scipio_Wright]

I've only been working as an engineer for 5 years, so I still remember being new fairly clearly.

[ul]
[li]Assume their college skipped or skimmed a LOT of topics, like load paths, timber design in general, torsion, wind load calcs, snow load calcs, etc.[/li]
[li]Set very clear expectations. If you need them to design something, make sure you are clear on how they need to present the design. Showing past projects as examples works wonders for this.[/li]
[li]Be available to answer questions, and don't be mean about it if you think it's something too simple.[/li]
[/ul]

That's all I've got, might come back with some more later when I'm less exhausted.

 

[DrZoidberWoop]

1) It really depends on the size and culture of your company. Incompetence gets naturally exposed very quickly in small to medium sized firms.

2) Tailor the onboarding process to suite your company's needs, while providing the new employee an opportunity to HUMBLE THEMSELVES and respond proactively to the experience. One thing that humbled me right away was being introduced to the massive informational infrastructure it takes for an engineering group to function properly. Things like VBA Excel sheets, custom software plug-ins, and documentation streams don't just appear out of thin air. Not to mention the commercial side (construction contracts, sales, estimating, and necessary paper-pushing), things a students will have nearly 0 experience in.

On the flip-side, I've been around plenty of true engineering experts who were s**t mentors, and who's underlings were forced to learn exclusively by making mistakes and getting corrected/reprimanded by the boss, rather than having standard procedures to follow from day one.

 

[JedClampett]

The individual is very confident in themselves albeit they’ve never had to do any structural calcs or prove out any actual design. How do you approach training engineers that seem to have an unearned sense of knowing it all?

Sounds like that bronc needs to be broke!

 

[AgMechEngr]

I think it is important to make sure new hires/young engineers are actually given plenty of work to do with clear deliverables. My first boss gave me very little responsibility and I did not progress very much. My second boss gave me more responsibility than I deserved and I learned and developed at a much quicker pace.

 

[Guest090822]

BigH nailed it. I grew up doing construction so when I went into engineering design I had a good understanding than most text-book engineers. I don't know how many times I've sent designs back to young engineers because something physically couldn't be built. Get the young ones out in the field as much as you can. As a mentor, I used to be up front and tell the junior engineers that I wanted to see their thought process but if they really got stuck on something to ask me all the questions they needed. Using previous examples to follow are good, as long as the example is a good one. Set reasonable deadlines. Put yourself in their shoes back when you started. Most of us with 20+ years didn't learn what we know over night so give them time to digest the concepts. What is trivial to experienced engineers isn't to newbies!

 

[Standard American]

Have them calc some things by hand to verify results. A lot of young engineers I worked with had no clue how to analyze a wall or beam without software. They would just focus on changing the inputs in the software until it turned green. Instead of guessing what to change and running 20 iterations until it works they will understand what needs to change. It will also help them understand the limitations of the software.

Also, if possible take them to the field. You learn a lot by seeing first hand what you are designing. Where I started we had a good mix of inspections and design work. Not only do you get a good understanding of the structure and construction sequence but you also get to listen to the contractor complain about things.