New Job at Structural Company 5

[erik1938]

I recently graduated with a BS in civil eng, and I have had internships with 2 structural companies. I recently moved to another state and I applied at and was hired at a small structural engineering firm. I was told that i would be doing more then just calculations and engineering, which was fine with me at the time.

Now it is about 3 weeks into the job and all I have been doing is drafting on autocad, and typing memos and emails for the SE, since he is older and not computer savy. I want more structural jobs, and I am not sure if he will provide the help necessary for me to learn.

Any comments would be appreciated, since another viewpoint is always good to see things from.

 

[erik1938]

hanks for all of the information.

First off what I said, "Any comments would be appreciated, since another viewpoint is always good to see things from" I guess I assumed that the comments would be constructive and not,

"After 3 weeks you should be confident about where the toilets are and how the coffee machine works but everything else, including what work is being done in the office.....No one likes the arrogant graduates who come in thinking that they know everything because they've just spent however many years in school learning it. Most of those old timers have"

I understand that I have no way to tell the tone of some of the statements, but I thought they seemed pretty demeaning.

I guess a more well written post would have been:

In general, what should I expect as a new employee at a small structural eng company right out of college, with a b.s.?

I guess I have to adjust from trying to learn at the same rate that you do in college to a slower speed. I also see the points about working at a small company, where you do a broader range of jobs.

UcfSE, I would suggest that you also direct your comment, “If you can't do anything but reply with snide comments, I suggest you leave the forum” to some of the others that responded to me be telling me “After 3 weeks you should be confident about where the toilets are and how the coffee machine works” which is a pretty damn snide remark. I guess they are allowed to make snide remarks.

I didn’t think that there would be an attitude of, oh he is the N.F.G, coming from people within an engineering profession, but I guess there are always those people. During my 8 years in the military I saw a lot of that coming from guys directed to the new guys coming to a unit. I never understood this attitude because everyone is the N.F.G. at a point in a job or career. As I saw this, it was usually the loud mouthed obnoxious guys that harassed the new guys coming in. But that is just my experience.

 

[erik1938]

Sorry but I forgot to thank the guys that provided helpfull advice. I think that maybe I expected a little too much at first and that I should just try and learn all I can for now and enjoy the work, which I do very much. I just want more actual "engineering" work, but I guess that will come with time.

 

[lewtam]

Erik - the 'toilets and coffee machine' comment and those like it are what is called irony - a discrepancy between a literal statement and the speaker's attitude or intent to demonstrate a point.

Like you, I started out at a small private manufacturing company after graduating. I initially resented the fact that very little of my time was spent doing actual ‘engineering’ work and more on clerical, customer liaison, accounting and working my butt off on the shop floor, but it didn’t take me too long to figure out that I was becoming a much more well rounded engineer because of it. By being exposed to the guys that had to machine my designs, the customers that bought them and a boss who was a well respected big fish in the little pond that was the company’s niche, I believe I’ve ended up better off than some of my friends that started off in the bigger companies and ended up doing the same thing for 5 years.

Look at what they’ve got you doing:
Autocad – knowing how to bang up or modify a CAD drawing is not something that every engineer can do. Check the design as you draw it up – see if you agree with the selected dimensions and materials and speak up when you don’t.
Memos/Emails – some engineers have very poor written communication skills, and this is an opportunity to hone your skills with the benefit of your SE proofreading and giving feedback.

Hang in there – one way or another, you’ll be doing something different in 2 years.


LewTam Inc.
Petrophysicist, Leading Hand, Natural Horseman, Prickle Farmer, Crack Shot, Venerable Yogi.

 

[Tomfh]

I think it is fair enough for Erik to be annoyed at the tasks he has been assigned. He was employed as an engineer, why shouldn't he expect to do some engineering?

I started in my graduate role one year ago. I was given engineering work from day one.

I believe doing engineering is the best way to learn how to do engineering.

 

[PSE]

Erik,

Your job is a bit of what you make it. Right now you are doing some draftsman, technical secretary, "mundane" work but hopefully you are (or can) use it as an opportunity to see how the SE approaches the work he does. You are now a second set of eyes/opinions for checking the work so try to use him draw him out as a mentor. Ask him about his approaches and depending upon you rapport, ask him if (introduce an idea that you might use) would or would not work in the same situation.

A small company will introduce you to a lot of work outside the core of engineering. You will be relied upon to do whatever is needed at the time to help the business run. I worked for a startup company for several years and did, design, procurement, QC, assembly, facilities, packaging/shipment, and coordination with customers for installation. Any or all in the same day. You can learn a lot on how a business can properly (or improperly) run.

Regards,

 

[whyun]

When I was a junior engineer, my boss gave me engineering tasks as well as "drafting tasks". (By drafting tasks, I mean hand drafting on sticky-backs...) Since I wasn't hired as a drafter, drafting wasn't my primary role; however, in the process of creating details, I focussed on each element in a detail and made sure all elements are specified. It is definitely above-and-beyond a role of many CAD designers today who merely "copy" engineers' solutions.

Though your CAD assignments may seem mundane, you will discover that you are actually learning how things are put together and what makes a "complete" detail. Pretty soon, you will find yourself identifying stuff that your senior engineers missed or maybe even their mistakes. They will gain confidence in your work over time, and you will gain confidence in your own work.

I hope that there are good mentors in your firm to expedite your professional growth. Without one (or a few), you will still be a mediocre engineer after 5 years. If there are none, start getting ready to move on. I believe the first 5 years of an engineering career really shapes the rest of your career. Good luck.

 

[jetmaker]

I've always considered CAD work and memos part of my engineering work. Memos are written often to suppliers, subcontractors, bosses, etc to convey the status of programs and the like. This is all part of the engineering process. It is funny that as a junior engineer, these are often the tasks assigned, yet as we evolve through our careers and generally become leads or managers, we return to the memos and reports side of the world again.

We all have to start somewhere, and in Erik's case, it is doing rudementary work, yet someone has to do it. Like others have suggested, stay focused on the tasks assigned to you, and if in 3 months or so they have not moved you into something more challenging and worth of your abilities/degree, then confront them and find out what they have planned for you.

Best wishes,

jetmaker

 

[RDK]

Just saw this and thought that it was appropriate.

Happiness is not doing what you like: it is liking what you are doing.

Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[Ashereng]

I initially resented the fact that very little of my time was spent doing actual ‘engineering’ work and more on clerical, customer liaison, accounting and working my butt off on the shop floor, but it didn’t take me too long to figure out that I was becoming a much more well rounded engineer because of it.

I think it is fair enough for Erik to be annoyed at the tasks he has been assigned. He was employed as an engineer, why shouldn't he expect to do some engineering?

Right now you are doing some draftsman, technical secretary, "mundane" work

When I was a junior engineer, my boss gave me engineering tasks as well as "drafting tasks". (By drafting tasks, I mean hand drafting on sticky-backs...)

"Engineering" work isn't just figuring out "technical stuff". Engineering is also as much:
- record keeping (World Trade center, after 9/11, everyone was showing the original drawings, calcs, etc. used for the forensics. Somebody had to do a meticulous as-build.)
- meeting minutes (How many times have you seen, one week after a meeting when the meeting minutes are issued for signatures, that people are disagreeing on what is on paper?)
- accounting/manhour (How many jobs go over budget and over schedule? How many jobs go over budget and over schedule without warning until it is too late?)
- conducting a meeting (How many people have gone to a meeting and felt it was useless?)
- promotion and marketing (How many people have had a good idea rejected by their boss, becasue someone else had a better presentation of a lesser idea?)
- client wrangling (How many people know of someone who always seems to get the "easy" clients? Or, always seem to get a "difficult" client?)
- group building/management (How many people don't like their boss? One day, you will be that "boss". Conversely, how many people do you know who just can't seem to get resouces to their project?)

There are lots of aspects to "engineering". Most of it depends on your specifics, including your particular role.

As you move up, out, sideways, etc., you will need/pick up lots of different skillls - and these skills are not usually classified under "engineering", and usually not taught in "engineering schools", but are still important.

 

[whyun]

The irony is, when you get better and better at engineering, you seem to do less and less technical work.

 

[SWhit]

I think that it is reasonable to worry about what you are doing at work and how your career will progress. Don’t too narrowly define “engineering” my experience is that things that seem peripheral are often important and knowing them can make you a much better engineer. That said you must be careful to not be pigeon holed into limited work. It can be a balancing act to be useful but insure you keep your career moving the direction you want. Your current situation may be bad, but after only three weeks of not doing what you want I would say that it is not necessarily bad.

 

[Corn]

Don't sweat it. You get to do all kinds of tasks in a small company. Maybe you will turn out being skilled at collections which will help your check clear. You may grow into a great structural engineer which could earn you a good salary in a big company, but in a small company even if you were just an average engineer, being able to effectively communicate with the customers and attract new business, etc., all the non-engineering things you do, could make you a very valuable part of the business. You could work for and buy a few shares in a large company, but the chances for substantial ownership and rewards are much greater in a small company. Hang in there. Do the best you can at whatever you are doing, even if its menial labor, and contribute where you can to the bottom line. It would not hurt you to quietly record these contributions so that later you can recount them, but they will not pass unnoticed. Help some old timer with a bit of computer work where he needs it, and let that old timer show you how to make a structure work in the real world, it might be a little different than in a textbook. Even if you decide to look elsewhere for work more to your liking, bear in mind that a string of short stints does not look good on a resume.