New job offer - vacation time 3

[ttuterry]

I received a job offer this past week from a CE firm with approx. 50 employees. I have been a PE for nearly 2 years and have about 8 years experience. The vacation time offered is no vacation for a year, 5 days after one year, 10 days after two years, and 15 after seven years. I currently get 11 hour per month at the job I'm at do have about 100 hours saved up after 3 years of employment. I think its normal to wait 90 days - 6 months before being able to take vacation, but I've never heard of having to wait a year then receiving only a week the first year. Anyone have any thoughts? I am expecting my first child this May so I will obviously need time off for that.

 

[DerbyLoco]

The Guardian has a very left wing agenda and facts can be spun to suite a point of view. I am pleased that their are no poor people in the USA and that everyone has a high paid job - I wish the same could be said of all of the UK. You cannot easily compare across countries, or even within them at times, but I was amazed at the lack of statuary holiday.
In reality Derby is a very high tech city, mostly due to Rolls Royce, but there are others in different fields which make the average only just below Cambridge depending on which set of statistics are deployed.

 

[moltenmetal]

Ask for a premium in pay that will give you, after taxes, the ability to take the number of weeks off, without pay, that you feel you deserve and which are typical in your region. If they balk, you should run. Vacation is a real benefit with a monetary value, but its value in human terms is even greater.

 

[ttuterry]

@andriver Yes I am a fellow Red Raider. When did you graduate? I emailed the hiring manager and asked if the vacation time was negotiable. If not then I have no choice but to walk from the offer.

 

[andriver]

A smaller firm which may have a policy like this, would be more likely to negotiate than would say a larger firm. I would have to agree with most here that we are professionals, and no vacation time in year one would be a deal breaker for me. Both prospective employee, and employer take a risk when hiring. You risk going into an atmosphere you may or may not like, and they risk losing an employee in year one after they have taken vacation time.

As an engineer I am sure you have compared all compensation from your current job to this new job, but is you haven't make sure to take the following into consideration: Paid time off, insurance coverage/deductibles, 401k matching, salary, location (and potential cost of living adjustment) etc.

I graduated in 2012 with a Civil degree, and will be taking my PE this October. Wish you best of luck on your career decision.

 

[Compositepro]

"I emailed the hiring manager and asked if the vacation time was negotiable".

You just started the negotiation, and not in the best way. Tell them want you want rather than ask what they will give. There are a limited number of "turns" in any negotiation, and you just wasted one of your turns.

 

[spciesla]

Even if they are open to negotiation on the vacation policy, their starting position of 0 days in year one is a giant red flag to me. Thanks, but no thanks would be my initial response.

 

[kirrer]

My wife and I just looked into FMLA 2 years ago - and employers are only required to honor it if you have worked 1 year at the employer (on top of other requirements, like the number of employees in the office). So even if the OP gets the response "Yes, we honor FLMA", it probably won't be applicable anyway. That's not to say they wouldn't honor it voluntarily, but they wouldn't be forced to per law.

One other thing to consider when switching is the short-term disability insurance. OP does not indicate gender, but for a woman switching jobs, STD benefits might have a waiting period or might not be available with the new employer. My wife was paying into STD for 2+ years when her entire department was downsized at 6 months pregnant. The money we "paid" into STD was essentially lost, as she couldn't get another position offering STD in the remaining 2.5-3 months of her pregnancy. After that experience, I realized we'd have been much better off just saving the STD premiums in a savings account, and drawing on them as needed.

To weigh in on the vacation policy, even here in Michigan, when I graduated 2007, the worst offer I got had 2.5 days at 6 months, 5 days at a year, and allowed unpaid vacation. The first job I accepted started with 3 weeks vacation + 5 sick days + 2 personal days, and grew to total 27 days PTO by time I left (6 years later). My current job started at 15 days. I guess that's the automotive industry, though.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

I have never, never, encountered a job that didn't offer at least 2 weeks vaca time as a salaried employee... and that includes the lowest level employees.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[moltenmetal]

Here in Canada, you required to give two weeks vacation or 4% in vacation pay, irrespective of whether the employee is salaried or hourly. That's the minimum. 0 days isn't on the table.

 

[BUGGAR]

Don't call it vacation time. Call it paid leave to attend structures conferences or something like that.

 

[oldestguy]

My friend in Sweden just took 2 weeks winter vacation and we were comparing various benefits such as health care, etc. Sounded great, but his taxes on everything takes more than 50 percent of income. I'll stay here in the USA.

 

[TheTick]

You're taxed in other ways here. Given the gouge in my paycheck caused by ACA (a.k.a. "Obamacare"), I'd rather pay western European-style taxes and get western European-style care.

 

[MortenA]

I get 7 weeks of paid vacation a year - and so does everybody else in my company from the janitor to the CEO from the first day of employment - and i think that most people actually take the vacation

C. u. suckers ;-)

 

[andriver]

Morten, are you hiring? I thought my company was good, 4 weeks accrued over the year.

 

[MrHershey]

If they offer this little when they're trying to entice you to their firm, how do you think they're going to treat you when you're already there?

Absent me being desperate or other extenuating circumstances (butt loads of money being offered, career defining projects, etc.), I'd turn it down. You can try and negotiate vacation (and make sure you get it in writing from someone with the authority to make that decision), but companies tend to like to maintain the same policy for every one. If that's their policy, I'd have a few concerns. First, they'll likely be constantly trying to change your agreement because that's their policy and you'll have to fight every time for what they already agreed to just because that's not what they normally do. Second, if they honor it then you're getting more vacation time then your coworkers are getting and that can breed discontent. Unlike pay, large disparities in leave time is fairly obvious to anyone paying attention. Thirdly, a company that doesn't want their employees taking any time off isn't a good company to me. Everyone needs time off. Would seem like burnout rates would be pretty high without it. Productivity drops, job satisfaction drops, turnover rates rise. Most companies recognize this, I'd be concerned that this one doesn't and may not survive because of it.

 

[MortenA]

well its probably not in your neighbourhood - its Denmark. You can always check the job listings at the web pages

http://www.dongenergy.dk

 

[MortenA]

Seriously, its impossible to compare bit and pieces of a pay check and tax system. Its a lot of tradition and pros and cons and culture too.

 

[MortenA]

@OP i once heard a priest tell that he had been at many deathbeds talking to the dying persons and never once had the person said "I wish I had worked more" but quite often the opposite.

 

[monkeydog]

I don't think you have to be a priest to not hear that.

 

[JohnRBaker]

It is pretty typical of smaller businesses.../quote]

Not just small companies have some draconian vacation/holiday pay policies.

In the 80's, when I was working for McDonnell Douglas, while everyone got paid vacation and sick days, they did not treat all their employees equally. For example, I was a so-called 'professional' and was salaried whereas my secretary/admin was not. We both got our paychecks every Friday, but I never missed a dollar when I was off on vacation or for a holiday. However, my secretary only got paid for the actual hours that she worked, so if she took a sick day, went on vacation or was off for a company holiday, like Christmas, Labor Day or NATO Day, she didn't get paid. However, at the end of the year, with her last paycheck, there would be a 'benefits' check which would cover all of those days for which she had not been paid during the year, including any vacation days that she hadn't yet taken. Granted, she didn't lose out on any money, but it did make it inconvenient for her at times.

John R. Baker, P.E.
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
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