New Nukes? 3

[Zogzog]

What is the latest news on building new nuke plants in the US? Last I heard there were several licences issued mostly for the mid atlantic area.

I was a navy nuke but went into the HV power system testing field and have been considering entering back into the nuke world. I am also considering a move to the mid atlantic area.

 

[Zogzog]

Arent many of the "Engineers" actually ex navy nukes? I would guess that is the only place the industry can find experienced people.

 

[Bagman2524]

The plant I was at had about 10% of its' engineering staff as ex navy nukes. Some where also not degreed engineers but just people who've accumulated a lot of technical knowledge over the years. Probably about 50% of the engineering staff were licensed engineers.

 

[electricpete]

That is a boatload of nukes.

Along with the tremendous increase in number of jobs, there is also an anticipated loss of a fairly large number of experienced folks within the next five years due to retirement.

All in all, one would think it should be a favorable situation for engineers at nuke plants or people who want to work in nuke plants in engineer or other capacities.

Among people titled as engineers at our plant, I think somewhere around 10% are licensed, maybe 50% have a full engineering degree and perhaps 70% have some kind of 4-year degree. In a lot of the areas it doesn't make much difference - experience and knowledge and the ability to get the job done right are what counts.

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[electricpete]

When I said "licensed", I was referring to PE license, not RO or SRO license.

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[jpankask]

At our plant, Navy Nukes typically go to operations. Almost all of our engineering department is made up of degreed engineers or engineering technologists. A few are Navy Nukes with an engineering degree. About 20% of engineers are licensed professional engineers.

We have already lost several to new construction projects. I expect it won't really pick up until a few sites commit to actually building a plant, which probably won't happen until the first COL's are issued around 2009-2010. I do see a lot of advertisements for Westinghouse and GE engineers and even a few for Areva. They are snatching up a lot of new graduates, I understand. The next couple of years will be a great time to be graduating with an engineering degree if all the proposed new plants actually get built, even if only half are started. The biggest problem is that many of the nuclear plants are sited far from a major metropolitan area and a lot of the younger people (and some older) don't want to live that far from the all-night life.

 

[EdStainless]

Pete, sorry I missed your question.
The condenser for a 1000-1500 MW Nuc will depend on the cooling water available. Generally they go 3-5 million feet of tubing. Today the most common size would be about 1" od x 0.025" wall.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Plymouth Tube

 

[electricpete]

Yowza. I knew it was an amazing number. 5 million feet would be close to 1,000 miles. Incredible.

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[rmw]

Ed,

I've been wondering where you were. I did a quick calculation without the benefit of records from my former life that are now in storage and from memory (trying to scale up GG Unit 1) came up with about 1000 miles and thoght I'd look like a fool if I had slipped a decimal somewhere so I just decided to wait until you weighed in.

rmw

 

[davefitz]

and not just any tubing. We're talking about titanium or Sea-Cure or other primo alloy.

The nuke steam cycle might be 28% efficient and an LMTD of 20F might be available at the condenser, so one can estimate the ft2 and linear ft of 7/8" OD tubes .

 

[EdStainless]

The "new" unit at TVA Watts Barr 2 has purchased 3.3 million feet of 1" x 0.028" SEA-CURE tubing.
The tubes are each 115' long!

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Plymouth Tube

 

[KitoOne]

in oct 30 2007 NuStart Energy submitted an application for a nuclear reactor

average plant takes approx 3-4 years to start production of the plant

 

[mauner]

Nuke steam cycles are closer to 40% with a modernized MSR and cascading feedwater heaters.

 

[Bagman2524]

The 1980's era unit that I was at had 33% efficiency. I'm kind of surprised more progress has not been made.

 

[mauner]

The limitations are not necessarily due to technology but initial capital investment and plant location.

The near 40% cycle efficiency was for the Stone and Webster designed Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant, which never operated above 5% power.

For a rankine reheat cycle you are still limited by the heat source and sink temperatures.

Many early nuke plants didn't get the efficency promised by an elaborate feedwater heater train. Infact, the plant I worked at lost cycle efficiency when both stages of the moisture separator reheaters were placed in operation.

Technology has greatly improved in the design of the new MSR. Mostly due to greater computing power to analyze two phase heat transfer. MSR replacement have been included in several power up-rates of the older nuke plants.

 

[unclesyd]

Here is some indormation on new licensing. Look in the box.

http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/new-reactor-licensing.html

 

[electricpete]

Wow.
4 applications for total of 7 units in 2007.
Expect 15 applications for total of 22 units in 2008.





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[ChrisRS]

Keep in mind you have been discussing only domestic plants. China and South Africa are just some of the international locations also building nukes. It is a long line to get in with the limited forging capability in the world.

 

[electricpete]

It will be interesting to see how the competition for various resources pans out. People, components, NRC review time etc.

Senator McCain (sp?) wants to have 30 new nukes operating in US by 2030. Since the first will come on-line around 2015, that would be about 3 per year.

Seems pretty agressive considering the constraints as mentioned. But I guess that back in the day when the first round of nukes was coming on-line in the US , it was aT A similar rate. Was it something like 100 nukes in 25 years?

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[electricpete]

Ooops. Must be Friday (thank goodness!)
45 new nukes in 15 years -> 3 per year.

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[jpankask]

The competition for people resources is already playing out. We have lost several engineers at our plant recently to engineering contract companies and also to the uranium enrichment facilities. Some companies in the Southeast are offering out-of-this-world bonuses to licensed operators to stay for a few years. On the order of $60,000-$100,000 for a 3-year commitment.

McCain seems to have a bigger vision for the nuclear industry than Obama does. While Obama is not anti-nuclear, his language is not nearly as strong for the building of new nuclear plants.