Was flipping through Amazon and found this
its available for purchase starting September 18
its available for purchase starting September 18
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New Salmon and Johnson Book
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civeng80, I think one answer is to have a structural engineering specialty within a civil engineering curriculum, and I'm sure some places have this. If a guy wants to be a structural engineer, let him out of that second hydraulics class and some of the other civil engineering courses that will be of absolutely no use at any point in his life. Somebody at some point will need a class he didn't take, but that's always the case no matter how the curriculum is structured. For example, I ended up needing to know about circuits, but had never had a class.
What you guys are talking about is available, but it is an ET degree per ABET, not an engineering degree. While it does prepare you better than a CE undergrad degree it does limit you with respect to licensing. I have a BSET in structural design. I didn't have to take stormwater management or traffic engineering - I did get to take (2) steel courses, (2) concrete courses, (2) analysis courses - including energy methods and matrix analysis, (1) foundations course, (1) class on wind/seismic code provisions, and a very in-depth senior project. This was all undergrad an in addition to the traditional statics/dynamics/strength of materials, CE materials, fluid mechanics, etc... I did also take calc-based physics I & II.
The biggest difference between the engineering degree and the ET degree is the number of disciplines that you have to demonstrate competence in.
The biggest difference between the engineering degree and the ET degree is the number of disciplines that you have to demonstrate competence in.
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I didn't have to take stormwater or traffic either, but instead of getting a CE degree I have a general engineering degree with a specialty in civil engineering. I also pulled down (2) steels, (2) concretes, (3) analysis, (1) foundations, (1) timber and masonry(which really wasn't a very effective course), and (1) advanced mechanics. But I also walked out with 20 CH beyond what was required for graduation, I'm paying dearly for it now too, seeing as I took all those courses as an undergrad there isn't a whole lot left for me to take as a grad student.
I do not see why we have to take; chemistry, political science, history, programming etc., come on we are getting an education not going to a tech. school. I also took as many classes as you did in structural design plus survey, transportation, water. It is all about where you go and what you do with it. I would not want to go to a program that did not include these courses.
Unless you take MORE than is required for graduation, you will likely get no more than 3 to 4 structural classes in a typical undergrad CE program. I'm not saying the classes aren't offered at the school, but with the requirement to demonstrate competency in (4) disciplines, the undergrad CE degree doesn't give you much of an opportunity to specialize in any one area.
Sandman - just out of curiosity, how many credits did you need to graduate?
Sandman - just out of curiosity, how many credits did you need to graduate?
198, I think I finished with a few more than that but only because I transferred into my college.
I had (2+lab) structural analysis, (2+lab) geotech., (1) steel, (1+lab) timber lab was a building design project, (1+lab) concrete, req’d, electives I took (1) seismic, computer methods in structural analysis. In addition, a year long design project, which for the one I did was a year and a half. I could have taken more classes but to get out I had to take others but they also had, masonry design, foundation and retaining wall design, and a couple that I cannot remember right now.
I had (2+lab) structural analysis, (2+lab) geotech., (1) steel, (1+lab) timber lab was a building design project, (1+lab) concrete, req’d, electives I took (1) seismic, computer methods in structural analysis. In addition, a year long design project, which for the one I did was a year and a half. I could have taken more classes but to get out I had to take others but they also had, masonry design, foundation and retaining wall design, and a couple that I cannot remember right now.
198! That's about what it takes to get a PhD, right?
I don't think exclusion of irrelevant coursework equals producing technicians versus engineers. It's what happens in the courses. For example, does the student learn to pick a beam from a table or does he know that assumptions went into making the table? Does he know how to turn on the "P-Delta" feature in a program or does he really know what P-Delta (and P-delta) effects are all about?
I've thought for a while that SEs are much closer cousins to MEs than the rest of CEs. By choosing to take surveying, traffic, construction management, hydraulics, etc. one has chosen to NOT take advanced mech. of materials, vibrations, FEA (at least in undergrad), stability, mech. of thin-walled structures, etc. All of those classes are a lot more useful for a SE and most are undergrad classes for MEs, aerospace, etc. I'd hope that in the future, it will be typical for SE to be a different degree from CE.
I don't think exclusion of irrelevant coursework equals producing technicians versus engineers. It's what happens in the courses. For example, does the student learn to pick a beam from a table or does he know that assumptions went into making the table? Does he know how to turn on the "P-Delta" feature in a program or does he really know what P-Delta (and P-delta) effects are all about?
I've thought for a while that SEs are much closer cousins to MEs than the rest of CEs. By choosing to take surveying, traffic, construction management, hydraulics, etc. one has chosen to NOT take advanced mech. of materials, vibrations, FEA (at least in undergrad), stability, mech. of thin-walled structures, etc. All of those classes are a lot more useful for a SE and most are undergrad classes for MEs, aerospace, etc. I'd hope that in the future, it will be typical for SE to be a different degree from CE.
Hokie-
That's quite possible. Now that you mention it, there is a pretty reputable engineering school in Philadelphia that does that. I remember looking at their program and seeing that they require almost 200 credits. I was floored when I realized that it was the same number of classes, but they do trimesters instead of semesters. They also offered less than most for structural courses at the undergrad level.
That's quite possible. Now that you mention it, there is a pretty reputable engineering school in Philadelphia that does that. I remember looking at their program and seeing that they require almost 200 credits. I was floored when I realized that it was the same number of classes, but they do trimesters instead of semesters. They also offered less than most for structural courses at the undergrad level.
I think a lot of this depends on how many technical electives the department allows. At my old school, I was able to load up a bunch of tech elective with structural classes. I only had 136 semester hours and had two steel classes, reinf concrete, prestressed concrete, wood, foundations, matrix structural analysis, and stability during undergrad. I could've taken another concrete and another wood class, but didn't like the teachers -- took another math class and mech. behavior of materials instead.
My co-workers over the years were amazed at how many structural classes I was able to take. They had just a couple because they were forced to take so many classes that broadened their educations.
For structural anyway, I think this is a big mistake.
My co-workers over the years were amazed at how many structural classes I was able to take. They had just a couple because they were forced to take so many classes that broadened their educations.
For structural anyway, I think this is a big mistake.
Yes those are quarter hours so roughly 138 semesters’ hours. I only had two electives in the structural area. They do have programs out here(CA) that are structural engineering degrees; I could have gone to these programs but decided against going, I don’t regret it, I also don’t think it has hurt me or will hurt me in my career. It also makes passing the P.E. easier. lol
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