New SE Exam Review

[Lion06]

Hi all. I was able to get some good information from this thread -

http://eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=336281

- but I have some additional questions for those of you who have taken this exam.

I've been asked to take the new 16 hour SE exam (I currently have a PE via the old SE I). I did not study for the SE I other than to make sure my codes were well tabbed and go through the masonry design portion of the SERM by Allan Williams. As many others have stated on here, I felt that was a sub-par standard for entry into the profession as a Registered Engineer. Now I'm looking at the 16 hour exam and feeling like I need to study and try hard to pass it on the first try.

My questions are:

1. To those who have taken the exam, did you use the new Allan Williams SERM's for gravity and lateral? If so, what did you think of them?

2. When I was looking into this a few years ago, I remember thinking that you could pass any of the four modules. In recent readings, however, it appears that you either pass or fail Friday and pass or fail Saturday. This just means that you're taking two modules as opposed to four (the way I prefer to think about with respect to what you can pass). Is the latter what is accurate?

3. I've seen some threads that still reference having the AASHTO manual following a statement about taking the building exam. I thought this was either/or, not a mixture of the two. Is it true that you take either buildings OR bridges and will not get questions about both.

4. Has anyone taken the new 16 hour exam after already having the PE? I'm especially interested in your take on the exam and how you prepared.

 

[theonlynamenottaken]

1) Alan Williams SERM is a good reference and a text I would think is best referred to as an "outline" of the stuff you should know within the codes. If you work with any ME's you may notice that the SERM is 1/5th the thickness of the MERM. This is due to the fact that you also have this stack of ~8 obligatory codes you should know from front to back. In summary, the SERM is useful but certainly not crucial.

2) You get a pass/fail result for the 8-hour Gravity, and a pass/fail for the 8-hour Lateral. Its not separated into 4 modules, just 2 as you suspected. In my jurisdiction they gave them on consecutive Friday and Saturday. I think 16 hours of rigorous engineering exam within 2 days is too much for anyone, regardless of your proficiency in engineering & the codes. I remember when I took the Saturday portion (6 months after taking only the Friday portion), the haggard, drained look of the folks that had sat for 8 hours just the previous day.

3) The 4 hour morning sessions (both on Fri & Sat) are general and encompass both buildings and bridges. You'll need to have the AASHTO code and know it, though it is so well indexed that it isn't that tough to grasp for us building folks.

4) You'll get a wide spectrum of answers on this one. I spent two Saturdays getting familiar with AASHTO and a few topics I wasn't that well-versed in and that was it. I left 3 out of 4 of the four-hour sessions early, though I still wouldn't call the 16-hour SE easy. I think your on-the-job structural experience is of vital importance. For me 1 hour of on-the-job experience equals ~5hrs of studying. Also, in my job I encountered and worked with all the codes (except AASHTO) regularly.

 

[MrHershey]

1. Get the SERM. Tab it, you will use it a lot during the exam, study, and in practice afterwards.
2. Yes. You have two days to pass. Day one is gravity. Day two is lateral. You must pass both within an acceptable time period of each other (I think five years) to be considered as having 'passed' the SE. Most people take these exams back to back, sitting for vertical on Friday and lateral on Saturday. You don't have to though.
3. Each day is split up into two portions - AM and PM. Both portions are 4 hour exams. AM is 40 multiple choice problems. AM exam is the same regardless of whether you choose to take Bridges or Buildings. When I took it, it was about 75% Buildings, 25% Bridges. So unless you think you can get nearly 100% of the building questions correct, you probably want to study some bridges and bring AASHTO with you. A couple of the bridge questions will likely be simple, pull numbers out of the code stuff. Free questions...if you have the AASHTO and if you know where to look. PM is where the Bridges/Buildings choice makes a difference. If you choose Bridges you'll get 3 questions, 2 one hour questions and a single two hour question. If you choose Buildings, you'll get four single hour questions. You don't have to complete the questions in the time suggested, that's just the suggestion. You could take 20 minutes on one and 100 on another. For Buildings, the questions usually go Steel/Concrete/Wood/Masonry but check NCEES website for the actual format of what the PM questions cover.
4. N/A for me, someone else would need to answer.

SERM also has good descriptions and tips for the exam.

 

[Lion06]

Thank you for the feedback.

theonlynamenottaken - Did you take the old SE I and the new SE exam or only the new SE exam? Did you pass the new SE exam on the first try?

 

[kylesito]

1. I have not used the latest version of the SERM but the version I had was very good and a handy reference (although I found other references framed some things better in some cases so I used it in conjunction with others).

2. See other posts.

3. I believe in having the AASHTO reference and reviewing it thoroughly, even for the building test. I wasn't willing to leave the 4-5 multiple choice questions in doubt simply by not spending time with the book. I believe this helped me pass.

4. I took the 16 hour test immediately after passing the PE (wanted to parlay the preparation into the second test). I took the SE 1 once, failed, then took the PE-Structural when the SE 1 was discontinued. In my opinion, the SE 1 was about half way between the PE-Structural and 16 hr SE exam in terms of difficulty. This could be attributed to the fact that you needed a broader base of knowledge for the 16 hour test, but I also thought it was less of a "code" test and more of a practical exam.

I did not come into the exam with a great deal of larger building experience. This was particularly true for Seismic content, which is a major part of the 16 hour exam. So my studying schedule was pretty intense...2-3 hours a day 3 or 4 days a week for several months. Plus a 3-4 hour "group" I met with on Sundays. For me, I needed this. It's a lot of material to become familiar with made even more so when you are learning some of it for the first time.

Best references I used: Kaplan's three book package (Seismic was the best, concrete was a good reference also, and the practice problems were invaluable). I can't underestimate the importance of the seismic book...it saved my neck on Saturday.

Good luck!

PE, SE
Eastern United States

"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi

 

[theonlynamenottaken]

Took the old SE1 and four years later took the new 16-hr SE. Passed both on the first try. Didn't really need to take the 16-hr for where I live and practice but had an employer that would foot the bill if I passed. (that and I kinda wanted to be able to change my suffix to MLSE).

If you're trying to compare baselines for when to take the exam I should tell you I have a master's in structural and read engineering textbooks for fun. However, don't put a lot of stock into the specifics what people say about education, studying, work experience and preparation. Two different people with the same exact education, work experience and studying regimen will still have very different performances for such an exam. So much of these types of engineering exams comes down to your personal knowledge level and your mental readiness. Once you're to the point where you don't need to look at example problems or sift through the codes to work most problems you're probably "knowledge" ready. For instance, you should be able to do most concrete without opening ACI, and if you're doing wind calcs and only need to crack ASCE 7 for your Kz and GCp values, you're on the right track. And when you do open the codes if you don't need tabs and can just open the books to the right spot? That exam should be cowering in fear at your prowess.

And that's what the mental readiness is all about. I've seen so many folks fail this exam (and other PE exams) by defeating themselves. They'd get overwhelmed by seemingly daunting questions that were just three or four quick and simple problems rolled into one, and once you're flustered and freaked out in that way you're on a downward spiral. Go in there confident in yourself, excited by the challenge, make sure to calmly read and re-read each question, and then be able to dissect and identify each "sub-problem" that each question contains. Being in that state combined with being knowledge ready and you'll beat the lunch and evening traffic by leaving every section early.

(I realize that most of this advice isn't necessary for you Lion06 since you've already taken a PE exam, but so many people come to this forum looking for SE exam advice that I thought I'd throw out my three cents)

 

[Lion06]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I'm planning to take the October 2014 exam.

 

[MrHershey]

This is a great comment:

"And when you do open the codes if you don't need tabs and can just open the books to the right spot? That exam should be cowering in fear at your prowess."

That's where you want to be. Tab your codes, absolutely tab your codes. But you should be to the point that you don't even need them because you can just open the book and be within a few pages of what you're looking for. You don't want to have to trust that, but you should be to the point that if someone switched out your tabbed, marked up code just before the exam for a clean one that it wouldn't make any difference because you know where everything is anyways.

 

[kylesito]

Hear, Hear.

PE, SE
Eastern United States

"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi

 

[Lion06]

I just ordered the SERM and the Structural Sample Questions and Solutions (NCPSE5). The reviews online sound like the SERM are light on seismic information for the lateral component. What did you all use to study for the lateral component? Did you find it to be more analysis/design related, detailing related, or a good mixture?

 

[fegenbush]

Lion06,

SEAOC Vol. 1 is required reading. Vol. 2 & 3 are optional, but helpful.

 

[kylesito]

Best seismic book out there is the Kaplan SE Seismic review book. Many of these principles get put into practice for wind design although this doesn't cover how to actually calculate wind loads from IBC or ASCE 7


PE, SE
Eastern United States

"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi

 

[mnovicki]

Know how to do do every problem in SEAOC Volume 1 with ease. I recommend the Hiner Seismic Design Review as well.

 

[FixedEarth]

For the geotechnical portion of the exam, see my 201 book-

http://www.soilstructure.com/public...foundation-design-201-solved-problems-2nd-ed/

http://www.soilstructure.com/

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

Never opened my soils book once during the SE. Don't bother buying a geotechnical book, get a book on concrete and masonry foundations and retaining walls instead.

Maine EIT, Civil/Structural.

 

[msquared48]

Lion:

Just stock up on plenty of the brew BEFORE the exam. After taking the exam, you will not feel like looking for any brew on Saturday night, but will need to imbibe. You will pat yourself on the back for the forethought.

No worries mate, you will do well. Cheers.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering